DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Evolution of Saivaism and it's development in Tamil Nadu

**Lt_Apple** · 10-25-2005, 06:20 AM

We shall look on Development of Saivam, or Proper Tamil word Sivaniyam. We do not have Sivan in Tolkappiyam, however As Vedas are referred in at various points, certainly Siva-Rudran is Known to TholKappiar.

Why isn't 'Saivam' a proper Tamil word? The name 'Sivan' not in Tholkappiam -- the author prefers to call him 'Seyon'. The vedas ar NOT 'refered in' the Tholkappiar. There is no God called 'Siva-Rudran' during his Time. The god 'Siva' has no mention in the Vedas.

The Name Siva is not seen in Sangam Literature at all. Earliest use is as SaivaVathi- in Manimekhalai. Siva is referred as ManiMidarran- Who drank Poison; Sadaian- who has Ganges and Moon in his Sadai; and Mukkannan – for having Third Eye.All of this have been covered in Sangam Lit. Not true- Siva is talked about many places (at least 100) in Sangam Literature.

Sangam Literature and Tholkappiyam gives two different worship methods, One is Vedic- by Anthanars; with Fire, Mantras etc., and other is Veriyattu, specifically said for Murugan and also for Durga-Korravai. The Priest is called Velan, and He Sings And Dances Loudly and starts speaking for God, and tells solutions for problems of people. Many forms of worship are mentioned there, not only Vedic and veriyaatu! Check on them!

When Tamilnadu was dominated by Samanar’s Arrogance, the arrival of 63 Nayanmars took place and Saivam was Revived. No --- only a couple of Nayanmars took on the Samanars (Jains). Please note that not all Nayanmars wrote songs. Kannappar did not write (or sing) anything. He knew no Samanars either.

Friends- My posting on Saiva food is due to specific posting bt FSG earlier and as usual Idiyappam has DeConstructed Tirukural, friends please read PulanMaruthal Athikaram26- Arul is always considered as Divine Blessings in Kural 251 and Kural 252 is much more clear here and Valluvar finishes the Atikaram with
Kollan Pulalai Maruttanai KaiKooppi
Ella Vuyirum Tholum -260. Irellavant - But anyway, it is nice to see that you have started to read the Kural.

Certainly those of us who are used to Non-Veg, it would be difficult- but Valluvar is clear and Non-Veg is a start from Later Vedics. What are you saying there??

Of the Tamil Saiva Literture-Thirumoolar is considered the Oldest- end 5th Cen or mostly 6th Cen, but we have quiet a lot of interpolations in TiruMoolar works. You are wrong again. Madam Karaikkaal Ammai is the earliest of Saivite Saints. Her songs are placed under Thirumurai 11.

I shall give you a major collection of Verses on Siva in Sangam works in my next postings. Just a few paragraphs above you said -- "The Name Siva is not seen in Sangam Literature at all." Scroll up and see. Solomon you better stop pretending you know Sangam Literature.

And please post the verses on Siva in Sangam works. If you don't , I will.

10-25-2005, 06:20 AM	#6
Lt_Apple Join Date Dec 2008 Posts 4,489 Senior Member	We shall look on Development of Saivam, or Proper Tamil word Sivaniyam. We do not have Sivan in Tolkappiyam, however As Vedas are referred in at various points, certainly Siva-Rudran is Known to TholKappiar. Why isn't 'Saivam' a proper Tamil word? The name 'Sivan' not in Tholkappiam -- the author prefers to call him 'Seyon'. The vedas ar NOT 'refered in' the Tholkappiar. There is no God called 'Siva-Rudran' during his Time. The god 'Siva' has no mention in the Vedas. The Name Siva is not seen in Sangam Literature at all. Earliest use is as SaivaVathi- in Manimekhalai. Siva is referred as ManiMidarran- Who drank Poison; Sadaian- who has Ganges and Moon in his Sadai; and Mukkannan – for having Third Eye.All of this have been covered in Sangam Lit. Not true- Siva is talked about many places (at least 100) in Sangam Literature. Sangam Literature and Tholkappiyam gives two different worship methods, One is Vedic- by Anthanars; with Fire, Mantras etc., and other is Veriyattu, specifically said for Murugan and also for Durga-Korravai. The Priest is called Velan, and He Sings And Dances Loudly and starts speaking for God, and tells solutions for problems of people. Many forms of worship are mentioned there, not only Vedic and veriyaatu! Check on them! When Tamilnadu was dominated by Samanar’s Arrogance, the arrival of 63 Nayanmars took place and Saivam was Revived. No --- only a couple of Nayanmars took on the Samanars (Jains). Please note that not all Nayanmars wrote songs. Kannappar did not write (or sing) anything. He knew no Samanars either. Friends- My posting on Saiva food is due to specific posting bt FSG earlier and as usual Idiyappam has DeConstructed Tirukural, friends please read PulanMaruthal Athikaram26- Arul is always considered as Divine Blessings in Kural 251 and Kural 252 is much more clear here and Valluvar finishes the Atikaram with Kollan Pulalai Maruttanai KaiKooppi Ella Vuyirum Tholum -260. Irellavant - But anyway, it is nice to see that you have started to read the Kural. Certainly those of us who are used to Non-Veg, it would be difficult- but Valluvar is clear and Non-Veg is a start from Later Vedics. What are you saying there?? Of the Tamil Saiva Literture-Thirumoolar is considered the Oldest- end 5th Cen or mostly 6th Cen, but we have quiet a lot of interpolations in TiruMoolar works. You are wrong again. Madam Karaikkaal Ammai is the earliest of Saivite Saints. Her songs are placed under Thirumurai 11. I shall give you a major collection of Verses on Siva in Sangam works in my next postings. Just a few paragraphs above you said -- "The Name Siva is not seen in Sangam Literature at all." Scroll up and see. Solomon you better stop pretending you know Sangam Literature. And please post the verses on Siva in Sangam works. If you don't , I will.
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