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**Drugmachine** · 12-30-2005, 01:04 AM

A few questions for Mr Ramraghav.

The literary evidence centers on the fact that Siva is featured prominently in the Rig Veda, implying that acknowledgement of Siva is atleast as old as the Rig Veda. The question then becomes: how old is the Rig Veda?

How do you say that "Siva is featured prominently in the Rig Veda" when He did not exist at all in the Rig?

It is difficult to acertain exactly how old it is, but internal Rig Vedic evidence suggests that atleast a part of it was composed much before the H-M phase of the I-S. This evidence centers on the geography of the lands desribed in the Rig, which does not correspond to the H-M region (this served as the strongest support for the now thouroughly discredited AIT). It turns out that this geography (particularly relating to the river Saraswati) relates closely to the earlier sites in the I-S civ (such as Mehrgarh and Nausharo) but not the newer ones (like Harappa, Mohenjodaro and Dholavira). How was the geography extracted from a book mainly containing 'chants'. Any ideas on which lines of the Rig matched the geography of the 'earlier' Mehrgarh etc?

Of late attempts have been made (by Subash Kak and others) to date the Mahabharata. If we were to accept their conclusions regarding this, and accept 3137 BCE as the date of the war, and accept the theory that Vyasa was the author of the Mahabharata and the arranger of the Vedas, it follows that the Vedas (atleast partly) predate the Mahabharata. What has the date of the war incident got to with the date it was narrated and written down? - That you can safely rely on the date of the incident and ignore the date of its writing and pin-point the date of another writing the Rig-Veda?

This supposition also makes sense in the light of ¿¡«ø §Å¾ ¦¿È¢ as mentioned in the Purananooru poem (its in the Tamil Lit thread, in case u r interested). Some songs of the puranaanooru were written after the Vedic period... even during the Bakti period.. Tamils new what existed around them - like the vedas.

We can now claim, with significant riders, that
1. The Vedas (atleast in part) predate the Mahabharata war. The Mahabharata war occured in 3137 BCE. No! The war occured in 3137 perhaps... But when was that story narrated by 'Vyasa'?

2. The Rig Veda (atleast in part) can be placed in the Mehrgarh phase of the I-S civilization. Any lines, as 'internal evidences', from the Rig?

3. The Rig Veda (atleast in part) was carried and transmitted by the 7 sages from southern to northern lands (i.e. the earlier sites of the I-S civ). This implies that this part of the Rig Veda (or whatever it was known as at that time) must have been older than the earliest settlements in the I-S. I don't see the relationship there! 7 sages comming down and the I-S settlement and the Date of the Rig!

And yes, this whole analysis does not directly address the question of exactly how old the Rig Veda is, Agreed! It does not, at all address the date of the Rig!

for it has led to this further question: how old is the civilization in south India? Anyway never mind... But how does this question arise?[/tscii]

12-30-2005, 01:04 AM	#20
Drugmachine Join Date Apr 2006 Posts 4,490 Senior Member	A few questions for Mr Ramraghav. The literary evidence centers on the fact that Siva is featured prominently in the Rig Veda, implying that acknowledgement of Siva is atleast as old as the Rig Veda. The question then becomes: how old is the Rig Veda? How do you say that "Siva is featured prominently in the Rig Veda" when He did not exist at all in the Rig? It is difficult to acertain exactly how old it is, but internal Rig Vedic evidence suggests that atleast a part of it was composed much before the H-M phase of the I-S. This evidence centers on the geography of the lands desribed in the Rig, which does not correspond to the H-M region (this served as the strongest support for the now thouroughly discredited AIT). It turns out that this geography (particularly relating to the river Saraswati) relates closely to the earlier sites in the I-S civ (such as Mehrgarh and Nausharo) but not the newer ones (like Harappa, Mohenjodaro and Dholavira). How was the geography extracted from a book mainly containing 'chants'. Any ideas on which lines of the Rig matched the geography of the 'earlier' Mehrgarh etc? Of late attempts have been made (by Subash Kak and others) to date the Mahabharata. If we were to accept their conclusions regarding this, and accept 3137 BCE as the date of the war, and accept the theory that Vyasa was the author of the Mahabharata and the arranger of the Vedas, it follows that the Vedas (atleast partly) predate the Mahabharata. What has the date of the war incident got to with the date it was narrated and written down? - That you can safely rely on the date of the incident and ignore the date of its writing and pin-point the date of another writing the Rig-Veda? This supposition also makes sense in the light of ¿¡«ø §Å¾ ¦¿È¢ as mentioned in the Purananooru poem (its in the Tamil Lit thread, in case u r interested). Some songs of the puranaanooru were written after the Vedic period... even during the Bakti period.. Tamils new what existed around them - like the vedas. We can now claim, with significant riders, that 1. The Vedas (atleast in part) predate the Mahabharata war. The Mahabharata war occured in 3137 BCE. No! The war occured in 3137 perhaps... But when was that story narrated by 'Vyasa'? 2. The Rig Veda (atleast in part) can be placed in the Mehrgarh phase of the I-S civilization. Any lines, as 'internal evidences', from the Rig? 3. The Rig Veda (atleast in part) was carried and transmitted by the 7 sages from southern to northern lands (i.e. the earlier sites of the I-S civ). This implies that this part of the Rig Veda (or whatever it was known as at that time) must have been older than the earliest settlements in the I-S. I don't see the relationship there! 7 sages comming down and the I-S settlement and the Date of the Rig! And yes, this whole analysis does not directly address the question of exactly how old the Rig Veda is, Agreed! It does not, at all address the date of the Rig! for it has led to this further question: how old is the civilization in south India? Anyway never mind... But how does this question arise?[/tscii]
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