DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - A Historical account of the Mahabharata(m) war

**TorryJens** · 11-21-2005, 08:00 AM

The Mahabharata (m) is a wonderful work of religious literature that teaches us valuable lessons in moral justice and human duty. It is a work that shall remain timeless forever.

While there may be no debate on the nature of its contents, the Mahabharata (m) is perhaps controversial due to the nature of its origin. While some claim that it based on hard facts, some others claim that it is based purely on fiction. The fact that the Mahabharata (m) is essentially a piece of religious literate does not help either side.

This is because religion is essentially about belief - one may choose to believe or not to believe. And until the concept of God has been comprehensively studied and explained, each person will be justified in holding his/her religious beliefs.

Having said that religious literature is unhelpful to prove beyond debate the nature of its own origins, one is left with three options to analyze the said origins: geology, archaelogy and non-religious literature studies. The first two are fairly obvious and speak for themselves.

The third, non-religious literature, is acceptable as a historical account of ancient events simply because it is removed from the realm of belief and is based firmly on factual events that happened prior to or during the narrator’s lifetime. Further, such literature attributes itself to human origins driven by rational human behavior.

Personally, for sometime now, I have been interested in knowing whether the Mahabharata (m) is actually a work of fact, fantasy or a combination of both. I came across this poem in the Purananooru, a literary product of the third Tamil Sangam, in the library archives of the Tamil Virtual University (www.tamilvu.org) The Purananooru, being non-religious in nature, qualifies to be considered as an historical account. The qualifications of Tamil literature in general are strengthened by the fact that its claims have always been verified by geological, marine and archaeological studies wherever they have been conducted.

I present here the poem, along with a (attempted!) translation, and wish to draw your attention to a few references that seem interesting. Please correct me if there are mistakes in the translation.

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Purananooru - 2

Like Land, fertile in its content
Sky that lies high above the Land
Wind that brushes the Sky
Fire that is fed by the Wind
And Water that is opposite to the Fire
You possess the qualities of the five elements
Patience to forgive the mistakes of your foes, if they cross the line the Expanse,
Power and Fury to crush them and Benevolence to grace him if he relents
Your greatness has grown to such extent
Your noble head is held in such esteem that even the ocean will sink
In your land which houses so many cities, Oh ruler of this prosperous nation!
The sky is the limit of your fame
The Five men, sitting on horses with shaking heads, whose
Land was taken by those with the thumbai flower -
The Hundred men, when both were exhausted at the battlefield
You gave them sumptuous food without any limit!
Milk, which turned sour and day which turned night
In contrast to the principles of the four Vedas
Without change (of loyalty) with your trusted people, remain powerful all your life
May you live long, without (military) tremor, piling on your success!
Like wide-eyed deer, and its children,
Of the saints of past who did their duty,
Sleep in the protection of the three-headed lamp
So shall we live in the protection given by You, like the Himalayas and Podhiyam hills

Sung by Mudinagarayar of Muranjiyur, in praise of Cheran Udayan Cheraladhan who provided sumptuous food

Points of interest:
1. There was a war between a group of five people and a group of 100 people
2. This war was caused because the 100 people took away land which rightfully belonged to the five people
3. The magnitude of this war was such that it lasted several days and it flouted the principles of the four Vedas
4. Cheran Udayan Cheraladhan sumptuously fed both the warring armies.
5. This war occurred sometime during the period of the third Tamil Sangam (approx 18th to 2nd centuries BCE).
6. The existence of the four Vedas was known to the Tamil people of the time.
7. The Podhiyam hills (past/present not specified) were comparable in extent and proportions to the Himalayas.

11-21-2005, 08:00 AM	#7
TorryJens Join Date Nov 2008 Posts 4,494 Senior Member	A Historical account of the Mahabharata(m) war The Mahabharata (m) is a wonderful work of religious literature that teaches us valuable lessons in moral justice and human duty. It is a work that shall remain timeless forever. While there may be no debate on the nature of its contents, the Mahabharata (m) is perhaps controversial due to the nature of its origin. While some claim that it based on hard facts, some others claim that it is based purely on fiction. The fact that the Mahabharata (m) is essentially a piece of religious literate does not help either side. This is because religion is essentially about belief - one may choose to believe or not to believe. And until the concept of God has been comprehensively studied and explained, each person will be justified in holding his/her religious beliefs. Having said that religious literature is unhelpful to prove beyond debate the nature of its own origins, one is left with three options to analyze the said origins: geology, archaelogy and non-religious literature studies. The first two are fairly obvious and speak for themselves. The third, non-religious literature, is acceptable as a historical account of ancient events simply because it is removed from the realm of belief and is based firmly on factual events that happened prior to or during the narrator’s lifetime. Further, such literature attributes itself to human origins driven by rational human behavior. Personally, for sometime now, I have been interested in knowing whether the Mahabharata (m) is actually a work of fact, fantasy or a combination of both. I came across this poem in the Purananooru, a literary product of the third Tamil Sangam, in the library archives of the Tamil Virtual University (www.tamilvu.org) The Purananooru, being non-religious in nature, qualifies to be considered as an historical account. The qualifications of Tamil literature in general are strengthened by the fact that its claims have always been verified by geological, marine and archaeological studies wherever they have been conducted. I present here the poem, along with a (attempted!) translation, and wish to draw your attention to a few references that seem interesting. Please correct me if there are mistakes in the translation. ÒÈ¿¡ëÚ - 2 Áñ ¾¢½¢ó¾ ¿¢ÄÛõ ¿¢Äý ²ó¾¢Â Å¢ÍõÒõ Å¢ÍõÒ ¨¾ÅÕ ÅÇ¢Ôõ ÅÇ¢ò ¾¨ÄþÂ ¾£Ôõ ¾£ ÓÃ½¢Â ¿£Õõ ±ýÈ¡íÌ ³õ¦ÀÕõ â¾òÐ þÂü¨¸§À¡Ä §À¡üÈ¡÷ô ¦À¡Úò¾Öõ Ýúîº¢ÂÐ «¸øÓõ ÅÄ¢Ôõ ¦¾ÈÖõ «Ç¢Ôõ ¯¨¼§Â¡ö ¿¢ý ¸¼ø À¢Èó¾ »¡Â¢Ú ¦ÀÂ÷òÐõ ¿¢ý ¦Åñ ¾¨Äô Ò½Ã¢ì Ì¼ ¸¼ø ÌÇ¢ìÌõ Â¡½÷ ¨ÅôÀ¢ý ¿ø ¿¡ðÎô ¦À¡Õ¿ Å¡É ÅÃõÀ¨É ¿£§Â¡ ¦ÀÕÁ «ÄíÌ¨Çô ÒÃÅ¢ ³Å¦Ã¡Î º¢¨Éþ ¿¢Äõ ¾¨Äì¦¸¡ñ¼ ¦À¡Äõ âó Ðõ¨À ®÷ ³õÀ¾¢ýÁÕõ ¦À¡ÕÐ ¸Çò¦¾¡Æ¢Â ¦ÀÕï§º¡üÚ Á¢ÌÀ¾õ Å¨ÃÂ¡Ð ¦¸¡Îò§¾¡ö À¡«ø ÒÇ¢ôÀ¢Ûõ À¸ø þÕÇ¢Ûõ ¿¡«ø §Å¾ ¦¿È¢¾¢Ã¢Â¢Ûõ ¾¢Ã¢Â¡î ÍüÈ¦Á¡Î ÓØÐ§ºñ Å¢Çí¸¢ ¿Îì¸¢ýÈ¢ ¿¢Ä¢Â§Ã¡ «ò¨¾ «Îì¸òÐ º¢Ú¾¨Ä ¿ùÅ¢ô ¦ÀÕí¸ñ Á¡ôÀ¢¨½ «ó¾¢ «ó¾½÷ «Õí¸¼ý þÚìÌõ Óò ¾£ Å¢Çì¸¢ý ÐïÍõ ¦À¡ü §¸¡ðÎ þÁÂÓõ ¦À¡¾¢ÂÓõ §À¡ý§È §ºÃÁ¡ý ¦ÀÕï§º¡üÚ ¯¾Âï§ºÃÄ¡¾¨É ÓÃïº¢ä÷ ÓÊ¿¡¸Ã¡Â÷ À¡ÊÂÐ Purananooru - 2 Like Land, fertile in its content Sky that lies high above the Land Wind that brushes the Sky Fire that is fed by the Wind And Water that is opposite to the Fire You possess the qualities of the five elements Patience to forgive the mistakes of your foes, if they cross the line the Expanse, Power and Fury to crush them and Benevolence to grace him if he relents Your greatness has grown to such extent Your noble head is held in such esteem that even the ocean will sink In your land which houses so many cities, Oh ruler of this prosperous nation! The sky is the limit of your fame The Five men, sitting on horses with shaking heads, whose Land was taken by those with the thumbai flower - The Hundred men, when both were exhausted at the battlefield You gave them sumptuous food without any limit! Milk, which turned sour and day which turned night In contrast to the principles of the four Vedas Without change (of loyalty) with your trusted people, remain powerful all your life May you live long, without (military) tremor, piling on your success! Like wide-eyed deer, and its children, Of the saints of past who did their duty, Sleep in the protection of the three-headed lamp So shall we live in the protection given by You, like the Himalayas and Podhiyam hills Sung by Mudinagarayar of Muranjiyur, in praise of Cheran Udayan Cheraladhan who provided sumptuous food Points of interest: 1. There was a war between a group of five people and a group of 100 people 2. This war was caused because the 100 people took away land which rightfully belonged to the five people 3. The magnitude of this war was such that it lasted several days and it flouted the principles of the four Vedas 4. Cheran Udayan Cheraladhan sumptuously fed both the warring armies. 5. This war occurred sometime during the period of the third Tamil Sangam (approx 18th to 2nd centuries BCE). 6. The existence of the four Vedas was known to the Tamil people of the time. 7. The Podhiyam hills (past/present not specified) were comparable in extent and proportions to the Himalayas.
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