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**Peptobismol** · 05-01-2009, 02:19 PM

No he is quoting Imams. Let me save you some time, you are not changing anyone's mind.

YOUR religion, you know the one that is the life threatening disease to the planet makes it US vs. THEM.

A British documentary that aired in early January (Dispatches: Undercover Mosque) featured an undercover reporter recording the statements of a number of imams at a few British mosques (predominantly the Green Lane Masjid in Birmingham), as well as the DVDs recorded by them and sold in mosque bookshops. The programme's intention was to highlight the extent of Saudi influence in British Muslim religious life. However, what was recorded was more an incrimination of the imams themselves and the mosques that hosted them. And Muslims were once again left caught between the eagerness of the media to portray Muslims in a negative light and the misguided imams who provoke it.

Among the imams featured was Abu Usamah, an American-born imam who is one of several rotating imams at the Green Lane Masjid, who was quoted as saying about non-Muslims, "We love the people of Islam and we hate the people of kufr, we hate the kuffaar" (His response? "Kuffaar is a generic term, it is not a derogatory term.") As for women, he added, "Allah has created the woman even if she gets a PhD deficient. Her intellect is incomplete, deficient." Dr. Ijaz Mian of the Ahl-e-Hadith mosque in Derby felt that Muslims should "live live like a state-within-a-state - until you take over," at which time, "if you don't [pray], then we have to bring the punishment on you - you will be killed and nobody will pray for you." Another speaker says that girls should be forced to wear the hijab ("If she doesn't wear hijab, we hit her"). Some of the remarks were found on offending DVDs being sold at a number of high profile institutions, including London's Central Mosque in Regent's Park (the mosque counters that the DVDs were sold by a subcontracted retailer without their knowledge). However, none of the recordings or DVDs showed these views challenged or debated.

One of the imams also featured in Dispatches was the Australian-born imam Feiz Mohamed caught on a DVD (the "Death Series", no less - who names these things?) describing Jews as pigs (accompanied by a snorting sound) and calling on Muslim children to be trained as martyrs. "Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior)," he said. "Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom." ("The jihad I speak of is not one of violence," he responded. "It is one of personal struggle against things like mischievousness, temptation and personal harm." No explanation, however, was given on how exactly one "die[s] as a mujahid" or sacrifices blood through this kind of jihad.)

In Australia, this expose followed another widely publicized case of self-incrimination from Australian chief mufti, Sheikh Hilali, who had earlier likened non-Muslim women to "uncovered meat" and called non-Muslim Australians "a convict nation of liars". Hilali's defense, as with Feiz and Abu Usamah, was to claim that remarks had been taken out of context. (Abu Usamah even went as far as to release a 30-minute rebuttal on YouTube to address them.) Leaving aside the strained rationale for context (Abu Usamah, for example, stated that military jihad should not happen now, but later when Muslims are stronger), most organizations caught affiliating with them offered fervent defenses of their own work - but little condemnation of the remarks that put them in such a precarious position.

05-01-2009, 02:19 PM	#5
Peptobismol Join Date Oct 2005 Age 58 Posts 4,386 Senior Member	No he is quoting Imams. Let me save you some time, you are not changing anyone's mind. YOUR religion, you know the one that is the life threatening disease to the planet makes it US vs. THEM. A British documentary that aired in early January (Dispatches: Undercover Mosque) featured an undercover reporter recording the statements of a number of imams at a few British mosques (predominantly the Green Lane Masjid in Birmingham), as well as the DVDs recorded by them and sold in mosque bookshops. The programme's intention was to highlight the extent of Saudi influence in British Muslim religious life. However, what was recorded was more an incrimination of the imams themselves and the mosques that hosted them. And Muslims were once again left caught between the eagerness of the media to portray Muslims in a negative light and the misguided imams who provoke it. Among the imams featured was Abu Usamah, an American-born imam who is one of several rotating imams at the Green Lane Masjid, who was quoted as saying about non-Muslims, "We love the people of Islam and we hate the people of kufr, we hate the kuffaar" (His response? "Kuffaar is a generic term, it is not a derogatory term.") As for women, he added, "Allah has created the woman even if she gets a PhD deficient. Her intellect is incomplete, deficient." Dr. Ijaz Mian of the Ahl-e-Hadith mosque in Derby felt that Muslims should "live live like a state-within-a-state - until you take over," at which time, "if you don't [pray], then we have to bring the punishment on you - you will be killed and nobody will pray for you." Another speaker says that girls should be forced to wear the hijab ("If she doesn't wear hijab, we hit her"). Some of the remarks were found on offending DVDs being sold at a number of high profile institutions, including London's Central Mosque in Regent's Park (the mosque counters that the DVDs were sold by a subcontracted retailer without their knowledge). However, none of the recordings or DVDs showed these views challenged or debated. One of the imams also featured in Dispatches was the Australian-born imam Feiz Mohamed caught on a DVD (the "Death Series", no less - who names these things?) describing Jews as pigs (accompanied by a snorting sound) and calling on Muslim children to be trained as martyrs. "Teach them this: There is nothing more beloved to me than wanting to die as a mujahid (holy warrior)," he said. "Put in their soft, tender hearts the zeal of jihad and a love of martyrdom." ("The jihad I speak of is not one of violence," he responded. "It is one of personal struggle against things like mischievousness, temptation and personal harm." No explanation, however, was given on how exactly one "die[s] as a mujahid" or sacrifices blood through this kind of jihad.) In Australia, this expose followed another widely publicized case of self-incrimination from Australian chief mufti, Sheikh Hilali, who had earlier likened non-Muslim women to "uncovered meat" and called non-Muslim Australians "a convict nation of liars". Hilali's defense, as with Feiz and Abu Usamah, was to claim that remarks had been taken out of context. (Abu Usamah even went as far as to release a 30-minute rebuttal on YouTube to address them.) Leaving aside the strained rationale for context (Abu Usamah, for example, stated that military jihad should not happen now, but later when Muslims are stronger), most organizations caught affiliating with them offered fervent defenses of their own work - but little condemnation of the remarks that put them in such a precarious position.
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