[brraverishhh]

Originally posted by Olivier
I do not know your standards for the US, but as for me i do not consider my country to have any right to commit torture. And as you point out there have been breaches in the past and today too. AFAIK mostly in police precincts since forty year.

I condemn all torture acts and I think trials should be held and the person responsible judged. No you don't! Show me the French forums where you post countless threads on French crimes the way you do here.

I support the setting up of an international criminal court to prosecute war crimes when the country who should judge them does not take care of it. Then you know that Chirac would be one of the first to be sent there, don't you?


And you Mira? I already posted SEVERAL TIMES that I am against torture. I'm against it for the same reasons that were cited in th article you posted. According to that analysis, French nationals should expect to be subject to repeated and sustained assaults over a number of days while being questioned, beaten with baseball bats and truncheons,urinated on, and threatened with a syringe and a blow-torch when traveling outside the country. And they shouldn't expect a trial for eight years. That's a lot of time to rot in a foreign prison.


The reality is, however, that democracies don't fight other democracies. So more likely than not, if our soldiers are caught by our enemies, they will be tortured and if they can't be used as bargining chips, they will be killed. So ultimately, it really is for our own sense of civilization and moral standrads that we conform to the treaties that we sign. If we want other countries to emulate us, then we need to at least try to live up to the perception that we want to convey of ourselves. The idea is to actually try and live by example.

Now I think the US is doing a pretty good job with that. Last night, I watched Senator Byrd lay into John Ashcroft in a world televised hearing. Ashcroft is at the top of the food chain! And there he is was being pummeled with questions and invective by US senators for all the world to see. Our media has been ruthless in their attacks and pursued their own investigation alongside the real hearing for American voters. I think our system is working perfectly fine if you really want to know.

France, however, appears to need some serious work. The prosecutor in the case I posted called for amnesty for the police officers if their convictions withstand their appeals. But how far up the food chain does this kind of abuse go in France?

Torture is never OK and must be outlawed totally. So get on it! Point me to those French forums where you post about French crimes. You must be the change you want to see, Oliver. Then I might actually respect you for once.