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**Lillie_Steins** · 06-09-2006, 07:00 AM

Biaresh: "Surely that's anti-israeli and not anti-semitic the two are not one and the same"

KW: "There is no difference"

KW, I am thinking, more than any people in the world, Jews should avoid and abhor such generalizations.

Surely you cannot equal political criticism with ethnic hate.

Any justification of a generalization justifies all other generalizations, just as any "acceptable" kind of racism justifies per se
Racism.

Of course, I am intently keeping it simple, but be sure in such matters people tend to instantly adhere to the simplest model.

Racism / shovinism / antisemitism are the simplest, they don't require any intellectual effort.

Such as: "Romanians are a people of thieves, my last mobile phone was stolen by a Romanian!", "Hungarian women are all sluts, I know it for a fact, my last girlfriend was a Hungarian!". And imagination tends to go wilder and simplification more extrem when l'autre looks / dresses / speaks differently... "Maybe they event think differently about good and bad... Maybe they even think differently about our children, than about theirs ... Maybe they even have horns, why else would they wear those hats"?

Don't take me wrong, I am not trying to justify anything, I am just explaining a mental model that makes me sick every time I hear of it... even from people I respect and ...even from someone whose sarcastic reaction I fear

I understand where you're coming from, especially since some of my grandparents are from Romania, and I lived in Moldova for some time.

Regarding criticism of Israel vs. anti-Israelism, the two are not the same thing. There is also a huge difference between disliking some politicians and their policies and working to harm a country, and even more so denying the Jewish people the right to live in an independent country on our homeland.

I was, and still am, an ardent critic of Rabin and his government's actions, but I would never use what they have done to try to undermind Israel existence, or to harm the country. What Woody Allen, Noam Chomsky, and others like them propose is explicitly intended to harm the country, its integrity and independence, and its people. And I don't see how this, or saying that Jews should be the only nation not allowed to have the right of self-determination or of being independent, isn't anti-Semitism.

06-09-2006, 07:00 AM	#5
Lillie_Steins Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 4,508 Senior Member	Biaresh: "Surely that's anti-israeli and not anti-semitic the two are not one and the same" KW: "There is no difference" KW, I am thinking, more than any people in the world, Jews should avoid and abhor such generalizations. Surely you cannot equal political criticism with ethnic hate. Any justification of a generalization justifies all other generalizations, just as any "acceptable" kind of racism justifies per se Racism. Of course, I am intently keeping it simple, but be sure in such matters people tend to instantly adhere to the simplest model. Racism / shovinism / antisemitism are the simplest, they don't require any intellectual effort. Such as: "Romanians are a people of thieves, my last mobile phone was stolen by a Romanian!", "Hungarian women are all sluts, I know it for a fact, my last girlfriend was a Hungarian!". And imagination tends to go wilder and simplification more extrem when l'autre looks / dresses / speaks differently... "Maybe they event think differently about good and bad... Maybe they even think differently about our children, than about theirs ... Maybe they even have horns, why else would they wear those hats"? Don't take me wrong, I am not trying to justify anything, I am just explaining a mental model that makes me sick every time I hear of it... even from people I respect and ...even from someone whose sarcastic reaction I fear I understand where you're coming from, especially since some of my grandparents are from Romania, and I lived in Moldova for some time. Regarding criticism of Israel vs. anti-Israelism, the two are not the same thing. There is also a huge difference between disliking some politicians and their policies and working to harm a country, and even more so denying the Jewish people the right to live in an independent country on our homeland. I was, and still am, an ardent critic of Rabin and his government's actions, but I would never use what they have done to try to undermind Israel existence, or to harm the country. What Woody Allen, Noam Chomsky, and others like them propose is explicitly intended to harm the country, its integrity and independence, and its people. And I don't see how this, or saying that Jews should be the only nation not allowed to have the right of self-determination or of being independent, isn't anti-Semitism.
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