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**softy54534** · 09-10-2012, 03:53 PM

The way I see it, there can only be one possible quantum multiverse, which contains everything that can possibly happen. I tentatively believe the universe started from a pure state of zero entropy, and through self-interaction, decohered to the many possible universes that exist today, but only one of which we can observe. The decoherence continues, increasing the entropy of any particular universe.

Can't we explain this without invoking a multiverse?

For example, surely this increase in entropy arises from measurement itself which is designed to 'extract objective information' from the quantum system. If we assume for one moment that when a measuring device is used to determine the 'which way path' of an electron, that the quantum state of the measuring device is looking for a particular objective property attributed to what we call an electron (in our classical realm), then the measuring device will deliberately be configured by conscious observers to possess a specific set of orthogonal basis states that can be attributed to this objective property. As a result, if the quantum state possesses this set of orthogonal basis states they won't interfere with the set of basis states of the interrogating measuring device and lo and behold a classical state will result defining an objective property of this electron.

When the quantum state of the measuring device interacts with the quantum state of the original superposition, a new entangled superposition is created in the quantum world which is expressed in our classical world by the information we extract (the orthogonal basis states) from the original superposition (eg. break the original symmetry) to ascribe an objective state in our classical universe. In our classical reality of course we do not observe the new entangled superposition that remains from the interaction of the measurement as this stays in the quantum realm until we prod it with a new measurement, but what we deduce from the original mathematical superposition is a broken symmetry between the previous state in the quantum realm and the classical realm. We have acquired information about the quantum state and have permanently preserved it in our classical realm. I can see an arrow of time emerging, increasing entropy etc. but this is just a notional 'objective reality' in our classical realm that ultimately can be attributed to conscious observers and the information they wish to extract. The symmetry still exists in the quantum realm as no such decoherence actually occurs. Our classical universe is therefore the 'myth' which has had properties attributed to it by measurement by conscious observers. A grand superposition of 'everything' is still retained in the quantum realm. Rather than using a multiverse proposition then, our classical universe could therefore be interpreted as a conscious observer universe (a bit like a hubble volume) which is a subspace of a greater abstract space. :-))

Edit: An interesting paper here KJW :

The engine that powers quantum cryptography is the principle that there are no physical means
for gathering information about the identity of a quantum system’s state (when it is known to be
prepared in one of a set of nonorthogonal states) without disturbing the system in a statistically
detectable way. This situation is often mistakenly described as a consequence of the “Heisenberg
uncertainty principle.” A more accurate account is that it is a unique feature of quantum phenomena
that rests ultimately on the Hilbert space structure of the theory along with the fact that time
evolutions for isolated systems are unitary. In this paper we shall explore several aspects of the
information–disturbance principle in an attempt to make it ﬁrmly quantitative and ﬂesh out its
signiﬁcance for quantum theory as a whole.

09-10-2012, 03:53 PM	#49
softy54534 Join Date Apr 2007 Posts 5,457 Senior Member	The way I see it, there can only be one possible quantum multiverse, which contains everything that can possibly happen. I tentatively believe the universe started from a pure state of zero entropy, and through self-interaction, decohered to the many possible universes that exist today, but only one of which we can observe. The decoherence continues, increasing the entropy of any particular universe. Can't we explain this without invoking a multiverse? For example, surely this increase in entropy arises from measurement itself which is designed to 'extract objective information' from the quantum system. If we assume for one moment that when a measuring device is used to determine the 'which way path' of an electron, that the quantum state of the measuring device is looking for a particular objective property attributed to what we call an electron (in our classical realm), then the measuring device will deliberately be configured by conscious observers to possess a specific set of orthogonal basis states that can be attributed to this objective property. As a result, if the quantum state possesses this set of orthogonal basis states they won't interfere with the set of basis states of the interrogating measuring device and lo and behold a classical state will result defining an objective property of this electron. When the quantum state of the measuring device interacts with the quantum state of the original superposition, a new entangled superposition is created in the quantum world which is expressed in our classical world by the information we extract (the orthogonal basis states) from the original superposition (eg. break the original symmetry) to ascribe an objective state in our classical universe. In our classical reality of course we do not observe the new entangled superposition that remains from the interaction of the measurement as this stays in the quantum realm until we prod it with a new measurement, but what we deduce from the original mathematical superposition is a broken symmetry between the previous state in the quantum realm and the classical realm. We have acquired information about the quantum state and have permanently preserved it in our classical realm. I can see an arrow of time emerging, increasing entropy etc. but this is just a notional 'objective reality' in our classical realm that ultimately can be attributed to conscious observers and the information they wish to extract. The symmetry still exists in the quantum realm as no such decoherence actually occurs. Our classical universe is therefore the 'myth' which has had properties attributed to it by measurement by conscious observers. A grand superposition of 'everything' is still retained in the quantum realm. Rather than using a multiverse proposition then, our classical universe could therefore be interpreted as a conscious observer universe (a bit like a hubble volume) which is a subspace of a greater abstract space. :-)) Edit: An interesting paper here KJW : The engine that powers quantum cryptography is the principle that there are no physical means for gathering information about the identity of a quantum system’s state (when it is known to be prepared in one of a set of nonorthogonal states) without disturbing the system in a statistically detectable way. This situation is often mistakenly described as a consequence of the “Heisenberg uncertainty principle.” A more accurate account is that it is a unique feature of quantum phenomena that rests ultimately on the Hilbert space structure of the theory along with the fact that time evolutions for isolated systems are unitary. In this paper we shall explore several aspects of the information–disturbance principle in an attempt to make it ﬁrmly quantitative and ﬂesh out its signiﬁcance for quantum theory as a whole.
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