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**DoctorDeryOne** · 07-25-2012, 10:42 AM

That's true, but not my main concern.

I'm trying to develop a better understanding of the nature of enlightenment. Is enlightenment possible? Are there degrees of enlightenment? How do we identify enlightened people? If I were enlightened (fat chance!) how would I know it? When people claim to be enlightened, apparently in good faith, when they are not, what has gone wrong?

Then you asked the wrong question.

The first thing I’d advise is to ditch the word enlightenment, it’s a period of European history and in the way it’s used nowadays evokes ideas of some kind of mystical ascension.

The terms the Buddha used were Bodhi which means awakening, and Nibbana which means cooling out, there may be others but those are the main ones.

The metaphor Nibbana uses the Indian word that means setting aside a cooking pot to let it cool off before eating, so after all that fire and agitation there is the end of heat and of agitation and so release. Another metaphor is a candle flame going out.

So just as a pot can be partially cool or a candle burns low there can be relative awakening as well as “ultimate” awakening (which you call enlightenment) where such agitation never returns. If one experiences relative awakening one develops confidence that there is more where that came from and ultimate awakening is possible.

When people claim awakening but are not in my opinion it’s usually a product of romantic ideals about “enlightenment” that people seem to latch onto, which of course is a product of delusion.

07-25-2012, 10:42 AM	#6
DoctorDeryOne Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 506 Senior Member	That's true, but not my main concern. I'm trying to develop a better understanding of the nature of enlightenment. Is enlightenment possible? Are there degrees of enlightenment? How do we identify enlightened people? If I were enlightened (fat chance!) how would I know it? When people claim to be enlightened, apparently in good faith, when they are not, what has gone wrong? Then you asked the wrong question. The first thing I’d advise is to ditch the word enlightenment, it’s a period of European history and in the way it’s used nowadays evokes ideas of some kind of mystical ascension. The terms the Buddha used were Bodhi which means awakening, and Nibbana which means cooling out, there may be others but those are the main ones. The metaphor Nibbana uses the Indian word that means setting aside a cooking pot to let it cool off before eating, so after all that fire and agitation there is the end of heat and of agitation and so release. Another metaphor is a candle flame going out. So just as a pot can be partially cool or a candle burns low there can be relative awakening as well as “ultimate” awakening (which you call enlightenment) where such agitation never returns. If one experiences relative awakening one develops confidence that there is more where that came from and ultimate awakening is possible. When people claim awakening but are not in my opinion it’s usually a product of romantic ideals about “enlightenment” that people seem to latch onto, which of course is a product of delusion.
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