[Drysnyaty]

--I sometimes read Shinzen Young's books and listen to his dharma talks. He casually mentions people he knows who are "totally enlightened." I can't help wondering, first, "How does he know?" and, second, "What does that mean, exactly?"

hi Bopshibobshibop

this just sounds like the common "name dropping" of many Western dharma teachers, which enhances their image in the eyes of their audience. apart from that, possibly you need to ask yourself: "What does enlightenment mean, exactly?", given you started this thread

--My friend Danny thinks that he has a good chance at enlightenment in this lifetime if he studies and meditates assiduously. (He hasn't said whether he's aiming for relative enlightenment or ultimate enlightenment.) I ask myself, "Is this a realistic hope for Danny?" "Is it a realistic hope for me?"

again, to me, this sounds like "supermarket Buddhism" or "department store Buddhism", where the "marketing & advertising of Buddhism" has prompted us to go shopping for something better but essentially same as our current experience; shopping for some stairway to an imagined heaven.

again, we may need to ask: "What does enlightenment mean, exactly?" it is to feel any ecstacy & love more sublime than the joys & loves we feel now? is it a better wine, a better high, a better orgasm? "What does enlightenment mean, exactly?"

is our friend Danny seeking an experience unconnected to his current reality? for example, if our current reality is suffering, then ending that reality is connected to that reality. is Danny doing that or is Danny chasing some imagined exalted state?

--On a couple of occasions I have been in the presence of teachers who were enlightened, according to their students or followers. The followers told me I was very lucky to have the opportunity just to be in the presence of such a teacher. I felt uncomfortable and perplexed. What to think? What to believe? On both of these occasions, I did not feel any particular reverence for the teacher (no hostility either). Just mildly curious. Should I try to be more receptive to this teacher's wonderfulness?

imo, "no". enlightenment i imagine is something that will happen within you so i doubt reverence towards a teacher can assist.

(I ask about "enlightened," not "awakened," because this is the language they use. I agree that "awakened" is the preferable term.)

i prefer 'enlightened', given it seems to resonate more with wisdom & knowledge rather than with some kind of exalted luminous consciousness

To tell you the truth, I'm not always 100% satisfied with the sutras. Lots of good stuff there, of course, but some I just can't bring myself to believe. That's why I study philosophy and psychology, and so on.

that's too bad. at least the Pali suttas explain suffering happens when there is ignorance, craving & attachment; suffering ends when ignorance, craving & attachment end; suffering ends when the mind can accept all conditioned things are impermanent, unsatisfactory & not-self. this is the psychology of the suttas, which are a detailed diagnosis about the reality of psychological suffering & its eradication

regards