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**Jellowstrom** · 07-11-2012, 01:38 PM

To use the format from the initial quote, what I see continues on is the carbon, nitrogen and other material elements and what can also continue on, as in the case of The Dalai Lama, is the social role, political position, recipient and giver of teachings and understandings.

Perhaps I'm missing something but that seems to be a slightly roundabout way of saying "Whoever is the Dalai Lama now is the Dalai Lama" which is true but not very exciting. If reincarnation of the Dalai Lama refers just to the continuation of certain set of social institutions, the word 'reincarnation' doesn't add anything to our understanding but since 'reincarnation' (or, for that matter, 'rebirth') has a ton of other connotations, its use will just confuse. To make that a bit clearer, on that understanding of reincarnation, what's the difference between saying "He's a reincarnation of the nth Dalai Lama" and "He's the (n+x)th Dalai Lama"? Those two sentences seem functionally equivalent but the second is a lot less confusing.

More importantly, though, it doesn't say anything about why Bob and not Bill becomes the Dalai Lama and this is surely the crucial point. I also can't see why the Dalai Lama gets singled out for this kind of special attention. Why not the Prime Minister, or the head teacher of the local school or even my pet? These are all social institutions which persist over time and apply to multiple temporally separated individuals. I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything here - I just have a really hard time understanding rebirth/reincarnation. It's obvious why, from the standpoint of the modern world, we might be more than a little sceptical about this but it also just sounds deeply confusing in its own terms.

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^ I like that. I must read some more Buddhadasa when I have time.

07-11-2012, 01:38 PM	#24
Jellowstrom Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 564 Senior Member	To use the format from the initial quote, what I see continues on is the carbon, nitrogen and other material elements and what can also continue on, as in the case of The Dalai Lama, is the social role, political position, recipient and giver of teachings and understandings. Perhaps I'm missing something but that seems to be a slightly roundabout way of saying "Whoever is the Dalai Lama now is the Dalai Lama" which is true but not very exciting. If reincarnation of the Dalai Lama refers just to the continuation of certain set of social institutions, the word 'reincarnation' doesn't add anything to our understanding but since 'reincarnation' (or, for that matter, 'rebirth') has a ton of other connotations, its use will just confuse. To make that a bit clearer, on that understanding of reincarnation, what's the difference between saying "He's a reincarnation of the nth Dalai Lama" and "He's the (n+x)th Dalai Lama"? Those two sentences seem functionally equivalent but the second is a lot less confusing. More importantly, though, it doesn't say anything about why Bob and not Bill becomes the Dalai Lama and this is surely the crucial point. I also can't see why the Dalai Lama gets singled out for this kind of special attention. Why not the Prime Minister, or the head teacher of the local school or even my pet? These are all social institutions which persist over time and apply to multiple temporally separated individuals. I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything here - I just have a really hard time understanding rebirth/reincarnation. It's obvious why, from the standpoint of the modern world, we might be more than a little sceptical about this but it also just sounds deeply confusing in its own terms. --- ^ I like that. I must read some more Buddhadasa when I have time.
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