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Old 06-16-2012, 09:49 PM   #3
Haibundadam

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Oct 2005
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434
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I recently realised since coming here that my entire basis on my belief from rebirth came from Thich Nhat Hanhs' understanding of it. From what I understand he doesn't really believe, or teach Rebirth, so much as Continuation. This to me makes plenty of more sense to me then the idea of the transference of a persons conciousness.
Hello Bodhivasti, an interesting post. I hope its O.k to ask you a few questions? I understand what you mean by a continuation in relation to the 5 skandhas, pañcaskandha or pungpo nga. I am not sure what you mean by consciousness?

It is, to me, the most logical and scientific conclusion that can be concluded using the mind, deep looking. Everything that makes the personality is explained more so by his environment, genetics, thoughts, speech, and actions, more so then the transference of past Karma. I think your adherence to logic and 'scientific' enquiry is laudable. Are you aware that logic has many different models? Ways of thinking if you like. Are you also aware that scientific models are also subject to change, revision and negation by other scientific models? So we have different scientific ways of seeing if you like. How do we choose which logic or which science to apply?
What do you mean by deep looking?
Do you think that environment, genetics, thought, speech etc are free from Karma?

Where does conciousness transference come into play here? What is the point of it, when it has very little, if any, of a true effect, when under the critiscism of modern science/psychology? (This is the main question) As I am uncertain of what you mean by consciousness I can not really answer this or comment on its affects. However if we have established that there are multiple scientific and psychological approaches (views) and these are often at odds. How then do we surmise that 'consciousness transference, has little if any true effect?

The only possible evidence for concioussness transference, or anything at all transferring after death, is past life memories. But even those are easily explained by what could be a very Buddhist way of looking/thinking. Everything is connected, perhaps even our minds on some level. Perhaps a whole system of minds, a database throughout the world, like an internet, a world conciousness. "The only possible evidence" is a huge statement when we consider the multifarious scientific, psychological, logical and Buddhist approaches to any line of enquiry which could uncover all sorts of other evidence.
A universal database is an interesting idea (have you heard of the collective unconscious) However how would a world consciousness function? would there be a transference of consciousness between the individual and the collective? would the world consciousness be a eternal?

I honestly just can't grasp the traditional idea of rebirth, and not because I have not 'practiced' buddhism as long as many others, but because I have learned everything I know from a mixture all Buddhist traditions, and from modern day science/psychology. If you have not done something how would you know how it would affect you?
There have been so many Buddhist traditions I would be surprised if any individual has even had a cursory glance at all of them. Many of the traditions differ not only in emphasis but also on application of method.
I suppose the root of my questions is how do you know that your version of logic, science, psychology and 'deep looking' are the most efficacious when you are not aware of and neither have you applied the other alternatives?

Thank You
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