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**CIAFreeAgent** · 05-29-2012, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Rhysman

"All phenomena must have either self-existence or non-self-existence. There is no phenomenon which is other than these two, nor are there any expressions which do not come under these two categories. All phenomena which are the subject of this treatise are similar to nirvana because all phenomena are devoid of inherent existence.

What is the reason for this? It is because the inherent existence of all phenomena is not to be found in causes, conditions, aggregations or individualities. Thus all phenomena are devoid of inherent existence and are empty.

Some assert that a result already exists inherently in the nature of its cause; but then it cannot arise because it already exists. Others assert that a result exists inherently but not in the nature of its cause; so it cannot arise because it is not in the nature of its cause. Yet others assert that a result both does and does not exist inherently in its cause; ; but then they are asserting contradictory views about an object because an object cannot simultaneously both exist and not exist. Because phenomena do not arise inherently so also they do not endure or cease inherently."

IMO, the above logic precludes any form of inherent existence. It really does not matter if you believe that Nagarjuna really received this from the Nagas and that it was a true lost teaching of the Buddha. The logic still stands. Your above quote from Nagarjuna is on the teaching of the subject of non-duality. It is a Mahayana doctrine that there is no ultimate difference between Samsara and Nirvana, defilement and purity, ignorance and enlightenment. Conventional dualities as we understand it is denied, as ultimately all phenomena are empty of all characteristic and that all dharmas have one nature, which is no-nature."

I believe one would not find this teaching of non-duality in the Theravada tradition which is aim at the extinction of suffering, i.e. going from the conditioned world of Samsara to the unconditioned Nirvana and not aiming for a unifying principle in our experience of the phenomena world itself.

05-29-2012, 06:27 PM	#34
CIAFreeAgent Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 671 Senior Member	Originally Posted by Rhysman "All phenomena must have either self-existence or non-self-existence. There is no phenomenon which is other than these two, nor are there any expressions which do not come under these two categories. All phenomena which are the subject of this treatise are similar to nirvana because all phenomena are devoid of inherent existence. What is the reason for this? It is because the inherent existence of all phenomena is not to be found in causes, conditions, aggregations or individualities. Thus all phenomena are devoid of inherent existence and are empty. Some assert that a result already exists inherently in the nature of its cause; but then it cannot arise because it already exists. Others assert that a result exists inherently but not in the nature of its cause; so it cannot arise because it is not in the nature of its cause. Yet others assert that a result both does and does not exist inherently in its cause; ; but then they are asserting contradictory views about an object because an object cannot simultaneously both exist and not exist. Because phenomena do not arise inherently so also they do not endure or cease inherently." IMO, the above logic precludes any form of inherent existence. It really does not matter if you believe that Nagarjuna really received this from the Nagas and that it was a true lost teaching of the Buddha. The logic still stands. Your above quote from Nagarjuna is on the teaching of the subject of non-duality. It is a Mahayana doctrine that there is no ultimate difference between Samsara and Nirvana, defilement and purity, ignorance and enlightenment. Conventional dualities as we understand it is denied, as ultimately all phenomena are empty of all characteristic and that all dharmas have one nature, which is no-nature." I believe one would not find this teaching of non-duality in the Theravada tradition which is aim at the extinction of suffering, i.e. going from the conditioned world of Samsara to the unconditioned Nirvana and not aiming for a unifying principle in our experience of the phenomena world itself.
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