DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post

**Ambrakam** · 03-05-2012, 04:40 AM

Gassho

This is definitely beyond belief.

This thread was removed yesterday as it need clarification and explanation. It is intended to stimulate discussion which would take its own course in a kind of Zen tradition. Unfortunately I will have to give it a kick start.

There are a number of factors that show the end result of following Buddhism would be the realisation of its limitations and therefore its cessation. Here are the two main ones.

Buddha is purported to have said 'Be unto yourself your own Buddha'. This essentially means once you have grasped the basics, leave it alone and learn freely for yourself.

Anatta, a mark of existence, states that there is no permanent self. Again, once this is grasped, to be attached to anything is to add to the continuity of the self and therefore act in discord with not only anatta, but anicca as well.

I hope this paints the picture more clearly and will allow the discourse to develop, so we may all become closer to Buddhahood.

Yes. That is entirely consistent with the dharma

True. But what is realised should be the same as the realisation described in the recorded teachings.

Why?

If we repeat what is in the recorded teachings than how do we know that we have actually achieved a realisation? This could be "learnt" without a realisation.

I realise (using that word guardedly and in the generally accepted way it is used) that many schools have different approaches. Zen asks for something different from the "recorded teachings". A realisation that can be described depends on the level and views of both the describer and the describee. Only if there is a common view will the description be adequate for both.

But if we have the view that "realisation cannot be described" then this is not Buddhism. Hmmm ... Zen is notoriously silent on many things ... including Awakening ...

Buddhism is the body of recorded & established knowledge, passed down from generation to generation, which maintains & continues the teachings of anatta & anicca (impermanence).

And if you apply the concept of impermanence to the recorded and established teachings? Are you saying that these teachings are permanent?

03-05-2012, 04:40 AM	#8
Ambrakam Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 327 Senior Member	Gassho This is definitely beyond belief. This thread was removed yesterday as it need clarification and explanation. It is intended to stimulate discussion which would take its own course in a kind of Zen tradition. Unfortunately I will have to give it a kick start. There are a number of factors that show the end result of following Buddhism would be the realisation of its limitations and therefore its cessation. Here are the two main ones. Buddha is purported to have said 'Be unto yourself your own Buddha'. This essentially means once you have grasped the basics, leave it alone and learn freely for yourself. Anatta, a mark of existence, states that there is no permanent self. Again, once this is grasped, to be attached to anything is to add to the continuity of the self and therefore act in discord with not only anatta, but anicca as well. I hope this paints the picture more clearly and will allow the discourse to develop, so we may all become closer to Buddhahood. Yes. That is entirely consistent with the dharma True. But what is realised should be the same as the realisation described in the recorded teachings. Why? If we repeat what is in the recorded teachings than how do we know that we have actually achieved a realisation? This could be "learnt" without a realisation. I realise (using that word guardedly and in the generally accepted way it is used) that many schools have different approaches. Zen asks for something different from the "recorded teachings". A realisation that can be described depends on the level and views of both the describer and the describee. Only if there is a common view will the description be adequate for both. But if we have the view that "realisation cannot be described" then this is not Buddhism. Hmmm ... Zen is notoriously silent on many things ... including Awakening ... Buddhism is the body of recorded & established knowledge, passed down from generation to generation, which maintains & continues the teachings of anatta & anicca (impermanence). And if you apply the concept of impermanence to the recorded and established teachings? Are you saying that these teachings are permanent?
	Quote