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**Emapymosy** · 03-05-2012, 06:43 AM

Gassho

I appreciate your questions.

if "realisation" is not the same as the recorded teachings, how can it be trusted to be genuine realisation?

Who is to trust it? I have no need to judge another's realization, so I have no need to know how to answer that question. I can only follow my own path.

How do I know I have had a realization? My view of the world changes.

Do I have any idea if my view matches that of Gautama? Again, I have no need to know the answer to that.

if that is the case, is it a different dharma (or doctrine)? it it really "Buddhism"? Hmmm ... I accept the Four Nobles Truths, I follow the Eightfold Path and I meditate. Is that not the core of the dharma? (I do not like to talk of Buddhism. It is a hugely diverse world religion. I follow the dharma ...)

If that is not Buddhism, then so be it. My aim is not to be a Buddhist. My aim is to follow the dharma.

please keep in mind the historical Buddha rejected the spheres of nothingness, infinite consciousnes, non-perception, etc, as Nirvana Yes. Nirvana is not my goal. I understand that is the goal of the dharma. I have no idea what the word Nirvana/Nibbana means. My goal is to follow the dharma. So far that has proved to be a positive thing in my life. Whatever happens next happens ..

A novice gos to the Zen mster and asks: "What happens when you die?"

The master responds "Why are you asking me?"

"Well," says the novice, "you are the master, you are enlightened."

"Yes," replies the master. "But I am not dead yet!"

where is Zen the most established? in the USA? if so, what explains its decline & impermanence? Maybe - I have no idea of where Zen is most established, (I do not live in the USA and I have had no contact wth teachers in the USA). I do not understand the point of your question.

I do not know what explains it's decline (Is it declining?) The dharma explains Zen's impermanence.

it could be. If so, what is wrong with this? Well, nothing exceptional. But "learning" alone will not acheive realization.

is this an appeal to authority & dogma? can esoteric philosophy also become a dogma, attached to?

is attachment to silence, attachment? is attachment to non-becoming, attachment? is resistence to conventional truth, attachment?

No, I am not appealing to authority ... there are answers to koans that are not given in "the recorded teachings". Such answers directly show the realisation directly to the Master. These may not even be in words. And there are many recorded instances of Masters rejecting the written word. This can lead to an anti-intellectual stance in Zen, but this is incorrect. There is a vast body of written Zen knowledge. But this is not all Zen. Zen is here, NOW NOW NOW. In this it differs from other traditions - just as other traditions all differ from each other.

Of course esoteric philosophy can become a dogma. What is esoteric about the feel of the sun on your back, the taste of the tea and your mouth? The sharing of the dharma with others? What is esoteric about Being? What is esoteric about NOW?

Of course all those things are attachments. I know where my attachments lie. It is not to Nirvana, nor to Buddhism, nor to resisting conventional truth (whatever that might mean). My attachments are to the dharma. Maybe one day I will shed that too.

If you see the Buddha on the road - Kill Him!

03-05-2012, 06:43 AM	#16
Emapymosy Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 426 Senior Member	Gassho I appreciate your questions. if "realisation" is not the same as the recorded teachings, how can it be trusted to be genuine realisation? Who is to trust it? I have no need to judge another's realization, so I have no need to know how to answer that question. I can only follow my own path. How do I know I have had a realization? My view of the world changes. Do I have any idea if my view matches that of Gautama? Again, I have no need to know the answer to that. if that is the case, is it a different dharma (or doctrine)? it it really "Buddhism"? Hmmm ... I accept the Four Nobles Truths, I follow the Eightfold Path and I meditate. Is that not the core of the dharma? (I do not like to talk of Buddhism. It is a hugely diverse world religion. I follow the dharma ...) If that is not Buddhism, then so be it. My aim is not to be a Buddhist. My aim is to follow the dharma. please keep in mind the historical Buddha rejected the spheres of nothingness, infinite consciousnes, non-perception, etc, as Nirvana Yes. Nirvana is not my goal. I understand that is the goal of the dharma. I have no idea what the word Nirvana/Nibbana means. My goal is to follow the dharma. So far that has proved to be a positive thing in my life. Whatever happens next happens .. A novice gos to the Zen mster and asks: "What happens when you die?" The master responds "Why are you asking me?" "Well," says the novice, "you are the master, you are enlightened." "Yes," replies the master. "But I am not dead yet!" where is Zen the most established? in the USA? if so, what explains its decline & impermanence? Maybe - I have no idea of where Zen is most established, (I do not live in the USA and I have had no contact wth teachers in the USA). I do not understand the point of your question. I do not know what explains it's decline (Is it declining?) The dharma explains Zen's impermanence. it could be. If so, what is wrong with this? Well, nothing exceptional. But "learning" alone will not acheive realization. is this an appeal to authority & dogma? can esoteric philosophy also become a dogma, attached to? is attachment to silence, attachment? is attachment to non-becoming, attachment? is resistence to conventional truth, attachment? No, I am not appealing to authority ... there are answers to koans that are not given in "the recorded teachings". Such answers directly show the realisation directly to the Master. These may not even be in words. And there are many recorded instances of Masters rejecting the written word. This can lead to an anti-intellectual stance in Zen, but this is incorrect. There is a vast body of written Zen knowledge. But this is not all Zen. Zen is here, NOW NOW NOW. In this it differs from other traditions - just as other traditions all differ from each other. Of course esoteric philosophy can become a dogma. What is esoteric about the feel of the sun on your back, the taste of the tea and your mouth? The sharing of the dharma with others? What is esoteric about Being? What is esoteric about NOW? Of course all those things are attachments. I know where my attachments lie. It is not to Nirvana, nor to Buddhism, nor to resisting conventional truth (whatever that might mean). My attachments are to the dharma. Maybe one day I will shed that too. If you see the Buddha on the road - Kill Him!
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