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**BarBoss** · 12-28-2011, 01:59 PM

I still don't understand how HHDL can legitimate both recognizing that he doesn't have the authority to unilaterally interpret for all buddhists, and yet pronounce that it is even generally accepted that homosexuality is seen as sexual misconduct from a "buddhist" point of view.

I would be much less concerned if he only spoke for Geluk TB buddhists when he spoke of these kinds of things. That is his charge, anyway. He might be expanding his brief a little bit. But then again, this NKT thing has shown that he's not a stranger to that kind of behavior.

I do not personally have anything against him. I only criticize in respect to his position as an official.

Kind of like the US Supreme Court commenting that a particular ruling may have outlived its usefulness and that Congress should consider acting to change the law upon which the ruling was original handed own, whilst refusing to strike that same creaky old ruling down because it's directly on point and has the weight of precedent and therefore not within the power of the Court (which respects precedent and sees it as a function of Congress to act to remove senseless but clearly constitutional laws).

HHDL isn't about to say that Gampopa (founder of the Kagyu lineage) and student of the revered Naropa, needs to be put out to pasture along with the Abhidharma moralists. If he were to do that he'd have a revolt on his hands, and it would not be mainly from Gelugpas. Just look at how long it's taken him to bring women in the monasteries....decades; and he's been trying to get it done as quickly as he can. It's not like he says something and suddenly the skies open up and 1000 year old rules are magically eviscerated. He isn't even the leader of the Gelugpa. The Ganden Tipa calls the shots. And he has some influence in other lineages but far less than their respective leaders. For example, the Karmapa or Sakya Trizen, etc.

He is perceived as speaking for all Tibetan Buddhism only because we see him that way. He knows that he doesn't speak for Tibetan Buddhism and he never claims to do so either. I do think he is reciting a standard position from way back; one that needs to be re-examined in light of current cultural and scientific changes, that have allowed society to begin to understand same sex attraction better and to correspondingly eliminate discriminatory laws, rules, regulations, along with the bias and ostracism that goes with it. He stated something pretty close to that in the interview I posted.

I think he's in a similar position to Obama, here, on the issue of gay marriage. Obama knows that just coming out and saying he's for gay marriage will cost him a couple of percent in the next election (coming up in 2012); so he says that "My position is evolving", whatever that means. It probably means that, if he's re-elected for another 4 year term he'll come out in favor of it.

I hope that HHDL finds a way to bring about a re-examination of this topic within his lineage and within all of Tibetan Buddhism. It's about time.

12-28-2011, 01:59 PM	#31
BarBoss Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 577 Senior Member	I still don't understand how HHDL can legitimate both recognizing that he doesn't have the authority to unilaterally interpret for all buddhists, and yet pronounce that it is even generally accepted that homosexuality is seen as sexual misconduct from a "buddhist" point of view. I would be much less concerned if he only spoke for Geluk TB buddhists when he spoke of these kinds of things. That is his charge, anyway. He might be expanding his brief a little bit. But then again, this NKT thing has shown that he's not a stranger to that kind of behavior. I do not personally have anything against him. I only criticize in respect to his position as an official. Kind of like the US Supreme Court commenting that a particular ruling may have outlived its usefulness and that Congress should consider acting to change the law upon which the ruling was original handed own, whilst refusing to strike that same creaky old ruling down because it's directly on point and has the weight of precedent and therefore not within the power of the Court (which respects precedent and sees it as a function of Congress to act to remove senseless but clearly constitutional laws). HHDL isn't about to say that Gampopa (founder of the Kagyu lineage) and student of the revered Naropa, needs to be put out to pasture along with the Abhidharma moralists. If he were to do that he'd have a revolt on his hands, and it would not be mainly from Gelugpas. Just look at how long it's taken him to bring women in the monasteries....decades; and he's been trying to get it done as quickly as he can. It's not like he says something and suddenly the skies open up and 1000 year old rules are magically eviscerated. He isn't even the leader of the Gelugpa. The Ganden Tipa calls the shots. And he has some influence in other lineages but far less than their respective leaders. For example, the Karmapa or Sakya Trizen, etc. He is perceived as speaking for all Tibetan Buddhism only because we see him that way. He knows that he doesn't speak for Tibetan Buddhism and he never claims to do so either. I do think he is reciting a standard position from way back; one that needs to be re-examined in light of current cultural and scientific changes, that have allowed society to begin to understand same sex attraction better and to correspondingly eliminate discriminatory laws, rules, regulations, along with the bias and ostracism that goes with it. He stated something pretty close to that in the interview I posted. I think he's in a similar position to Obama, here, on the issue of gay marriage. Obama knows that just coming out and saying he's for gay marriage will cost him a couple of percent in the next election (coming up in 2012); so he says that "My position is evolving", whatever that means. It probably means that, if he's re-elected for another 4 year term he'll come out in favor of it. I hope that HHDL finds a way to bring about a re-examination of this topic within his lineage and within all of Tibetan Buddhism. It's about time.
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