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**Yb4bulVR** · 01-14-2012, 07:11 AM

"I" try to be careful when discerning others progress by words alone. This is why "I" tried to use "I" in parenthesis. But I am not perfect, and I'm a little impatient with dotting every little context. I figure people will get the jist of it. The I is just a collection of the so called heaps. "If you ever have a direct experience of the stilling of the 6 sense bases and then arise to only the 6th anybody would know for themselves that there is no sense of I without the supporting 5 senses. Further, there is neither complete perception. When each sense base comes back one at a time through intent and investigation, it's not possible to believe in a "globule," a "mass" or a universal unity of selfhood. The self seems to "be" due to the interaction between the interface of distinct spheres of mental and bodily apparatus.

Also, if anyone has the experience of mental projection without bodily form, they will not be able to believe that the bodily form is a self either. But, it's not enough.

I apologize for being tentative, but I've seen what jumping in without mindfulness can attract from others. Argumentativeness, confusion and self hood are just a few words and a click away. And attracting unwholesome responses is not helpful to anyone. But since you asked, I chose to see that as a prompt to share. I remember reading that even the Tathagata did not offer a teaching until he was asked 3 times on several occasions. And I am still a novice.

"Although this is still not 100% true. When the Buddha was old & dying, with food poisoning, the pain his mind experienced did not have clinging as a proximate cause"

Right, but What I've read is that the Buddha had already accomplished the Arahat Path knowledge by then, so clinging was not possible for him, neither was suffering as a mood in his mind. "Knowledge of Equanimity Toward Formations": the 11th vipasana attainment separates painful feeling from painful consciousness. Many Acariyas also freely confirm that they stilled most excruciating pain with mindfulness and concentration on pain.

But I am not that yet. So untill "I" attain that phala, I will still wrestle and see clinging as the source of suffering, as the Buddha has explained for us.

01-14-2012, 07:11 AM	#25
Yb4bulVR Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 549 Senior Member	"I" try to be careful when discerning others progress by words alone. This is why "I" tried to use "I" in parenthesis. But I am not perfect, and I'm a little impatient with dotting every little context. I figure people will get the jist of it. The I is just a collection of the so called heaps. "If you ever have a direct experience of the stilling of the 6 sense bases and then arise to only the 6th anybody would know for themselves that there is no sense of I without the supporting 5 senses. Further, there is neither complete perception. When each sense base comes back one at a time through intent and investigation, it's not possible to believe in a "globule," a "mass" or a universal unity of selfhood. The self seems to "be" due to the interaction between the interface of distinct spheres of mental and bodily apparatus. Also, if anyone has the experience of mental projection without bodily form, they will not be able to believe that the bodily form is a self either. But, it's not enough. I apologize for being tentative, but I've seen what jumping in without mindfulness can attract from others. Argumentativeness, confusion and self hood are just a few words and a click away. And attracting unwholesome responses is not helpful to anyone. But since you asked, I chose to see that as a prompt to share. I remember reading that even the Tathagata did not offer a teaching until he was asked 3 times on several occasions. And I am still a novice. "Although this is still not 100% true. When the Buddha was old & dying, with food poisoning, the pain his mind experienced did not have clinging as a proximate cause" Right, but What I've read is that the Buddha had already accomplished the Arahat Path knowledge by then, so clinging was not possible for him, neither was suffering as a mood in his mind. "Knowledge of Equanimity Toward Formations": the 11th vipasana attainment separates painful feeling from painful consciousness. Many Acariyas also freely confirm that they stilled most excruciating pain with mindfulness and concentration on pain. But I am not that yet. So untill "I" attain that phala, I will still wrestle and see clinging as the source of suffering, as the Buddha has explained for us.
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