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**@Aerodyno@** · 01-07-2012, 01:59 PM

This might be helpful from SN 44.6.....

Regarding SN 44.6... Living in enlightenment here and now, for an arhat (with no fuel) means having seen the cessation of consciousness, craving, becoming, grasping, form They have no desire in that moment of enlightenment or in any subsequent moment for any of the things that the rest of us depend on to even feel that we are alive.

The Buddha states, for all of the above:

"For one who doesn't love consciousness (or form, or grasping, or becoming), who isn't fond of consciousness, who doesn't cherish consciousness, B]who knows & sees, as it actually is present, the cessation of consciousness[/B]"...

What does that mean? To me it means that the state achieved by the historical Buddha Sakyamumi, in every moment post-enlightenment, lacked consciousness, at least in the sense that we understand consciousness. I don't really know what kind of awareness that implies, but clearly the Buddha was aware of other beings speaking to him and answered questions properly. So I am assuming that he meant something like "not experiencing any self concept at all at any moment", but that doesn't adequately capture the essence of what it means not to be conscious. It seems to go far deeper than that; what awareness exists without consciousness?

So we can't really know the mental state of a Buddha at all unless we have also experienced this state lacking consciousness and the rest. It seems that this state doesn't differ from how conventionally, we see death. No consciousness, no grasping, no form, no craving, no becoming.
So I have to wonder how the Buddha's state of enlightenment is actually different than the Buddha's post-death state; but something tells all of us, without exception, that it was very different. In terms of function, it's totally different, at least; Buddha walks and talks, etc.

Having achieve the cessation of consciousness, of craving, of feeling, grasping, of becoming, of form--- what exactly is the mind of a Buddha and what sustains it. The If the mind of a Buddha operates based on something other than consciousness then what produces that? It has to be impermanent because the Buddha's mind changes (because the Buddha utters different words when asked different questions). The ordinary sick old body of the old and dying Buddha---did it sustain the mind of the Buddha? Consciousness is thought to be a byproduct of the brain's activities. Is whatever allows the Buddha to speak to Sariputta a function of the brain's activities? So...enlightenment arises from neural activity? Neurons fire in a particular kind of pattern and that's experienced as enlightenment? Does it represent no more than a change in the way the brain functions, basically?

I'm not making any assertions here at all; I'm just thinking out loud.

Anyway, thanks for posting this again. It's always beneficial to read this Sutta. And it always raises more questions for me than it answers.

01-07-2012, 01:59 PM	#12
@Aerodyno@ Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 379 Senior Member	This might be helpful from SN 44.6..... Regarding SN 44.6... Living in enlightenment here and now, for an arhat (with no fuel) means having seen the cessation of consciousness, craving, becoming, grasping, form They have no desire in that moment of enlightenment or in any subsequent moment for any of the things that the rest of us depend on to even feel that we are alive. The Buddha states, for all of the above: "For one who doesn't love consciousness (or form, or grasping, or becoming), who isn't fond of consciousness, who doesn't cherish consciousness, B]who knows & sees, as it actually is present, the cessation of consciousness[/B]"... What does that mean? To me it means that the state achieved by the historical Buddha Sakyamumi, in every moment post-enlightenment, lacked consciousness, at least in the sense that we understand consciousness. I don't really know what kind of awareness that implies, but clearly the Buddha was aware of other beings speaking to him and answered questions properly. So I am assuming that he meant something like "not experiencing any self concept at all at any moment", but that doesn't adequately capture the essence of what it means not to be conscious. It seems to go far deeper than that; what awareness exists without consciousness? So we can't really know the mental state of a Buddha at all unless we have also experienced this state lacking consciousness and the rest. It seems that this state doesn't differ from how conventionally, we see death. No consciousness, no grasping, no form, no craving, no becoming. So I have to wonder how the Buddha's state of enlightenment is actually different than the Buddha's post-death state; but something tells all of us, without exception, that it was very different. In terms of function, it's totally different, at least; Buddha walks and talks, etc. Having achieve the cessation of consciousness, of craving, of feeling, grasping, of becoming, of form--- what exactly is the mind of a Buddha and what sustains it. The If the mind of a Buddha operates based on something other than consciousness then what produces that? It has to be impermanent because the Buddha's mind changes (because the Buddha utters different words when asked different questions). The ordinary sick old body of the old and dying Buddha---did it sustain the mind of the Buddha? Consciousness is thought to be a byproduct of the brain's activities. Is whatever allows the Buddha to speak to Sariputta a function of the brain's activities? So...enlightenment arises from neural activity? Neurons fire in a particular kind of pattern and that's experienced as enlightenment? Does it represent no more than a change in the way the brain functions, basically? I'm not making any assertions here at all; I'm just thinking out loud. Anyway, thanks for posting this again. It's always beneficial to read this Sutta. And it always raises more questions for me than it answers.
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