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**Kokomoxcvcv** · 01-08-2012, 04:50 PM

The direct cause of suffering for each and every instance of suffering is entirely produced by the mind. I have no problem with that statement.

The material cause of suffering is the thing that "stuff" which turns into that mind (the actual physical material that becomes brain, which produces mind or, if you don't believe mind is an emergent property of the brain's activities, then, the mental stuff that turns into current mind).
So, this refers to egg and sperm, generally (for most sentient beings). These are produced externally; they are not at all influenced by mental fabrications. No mind has been formed yet so no such fabrications can even exist….

Well, this is all good. I agree with you that the physical body influences the mind. Mind exists based on the physical body. Brain chemicals and hormones naturally affect a person’s state of mind.

Physical pain is termed as dukkha in suttas. It is worthwhile noting that the pali word dukkha has many flavors. Pain is dukkha too. But pain is not necessarily suffering. Overall in the entire thripitaka, suffering is explained as mental concocting. Even in the same suttas where the Buddha indicates that physical pain is dukkha, he goes on to explain that to eliminate dukkha (suffering) one has to eliminate the mind's inclinations to grasp as 'I be.' Check MN 9.

So what is the conclusion we can draw from this? IMO the conclusion is that, Buddha Dhamma is for curing mental suffering. At lease this is what we can verify without speculation. Arahaths continue to feel pain. Excruciating physical pain cannot be cured by enlightenment.

01-08-2012, 04:50 PM	#27
Kokomoxcvcv Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 506 Senior Member	The direct cause of suffering for each and every instance of suffering is entirely produced by the mind. I have no problem with that statement. The material cause of suffering is the thing that "stuff" which turns into that mind (the actual physical material that becomes brain, which produces mind or, if you don't believe mind is an emergent property of the brain's activities, then, the mental stuff that turns into current mind). So, this refers to egg and sperm, generally (for most sentient beings). These are produced externally; they are not at all influenced by mental fabrications. No mind has been formed yet so no such fabrications can even exist…. Well, this is all good. I agree with you that the physical body influences the mind. Mind exists based on the physical body. Brain chemicals and hormones naturally affect a person’s state of mind. Physical pain is termed as dukkha in suttas. It is worthwhile noting that the pali word dukkha has many flavors. Pain is dukkha too. But pain is not necessarily suffering. Overall in the entire thripitaka, suffering is explained as mental concocting. Even in the same suttas where the Buddha indicates that physical pain is dukkha, he goes on to explain that to eliminate dukkha (suffering) one has to eliminate the mind's inclinations to grasp as 'I be.' Check MN 9. So what is the conclusion we can draw from this? IMO the conclusion is that, Buddha Dhamma is for curing mental suffering. At lease this is what we can verify without speculation. Arahaths continue to feel pain. Excruciating physical pain cannot be cured by enlightenment.
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