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**Gosxjqum** · 12-05-2011, 03:36 AM

To repeat what I've said before, this "deep level" I refer to is easily understood in the following way. You are in a plane plunging towards earth and feel you're going to die. Do you concentrate on your rebirth at that time...what type, where, etc. or...do you react purely in an existential manner...clinging to this very life, because you don't feel there's any life or consciousness or continuity for you other than right here, right now. There are many people who may speak of rebirth as if it exists who will quickly reject it (due to grave doubt) when plunging to earth in that plane. I know, I'm one of them (just some bad turbulence, in my case, was all it took!).

if that was actually happening to me, I don't think thoughts about rebirth or clinging to life would even enter my mind as the plane plunged to earth. I'd just be present with whatever was happening at the time. I think also that if one is in a state of shock then mental processes can temporarily stand still.

Regarding the subject of other 'realms' I like what Ajahn Buddhadasa had to say here in 'No religion':

"The words "birth" and "death" require the same discrimination
regarding language. In people language, the word "birth" means to be
born from a mother's womb. In Dhamma language, however, the word
"birth" means some form of attachment is born.

This kind of birth
happens every time we allow the arising of a thought or feeling which
involves grasping and clinging to something as "I" or "mine," such as,
"I am," "I have," "I think," and "I do." This is the birth of the "I"
or the ego.

For example, think like a criminal and one is instantly born
as a criminal. A few moments later those thoughts disappear, one
thinks like a normal human being again and is born as a human being
once more. If a few moments later one has foolish thoughts, right
then one is born as a fool. If one then thinks in an increasingly
foolish and dull manner, one will be born as an animal immediately.

Whenever an attachment is felt intensely--when it burns inside
one with the heat of fire--one is born as a demon in hell.
Whenever one is so hungry and thirsty that one could never be
satiated, one is born as an insatiably hungry ghost. When one is
overly cautious and timid without reason, one is born a cowardly
titan.

Thus, in a single day one can be born any number of times
in many different forms, since a birth takes place each and every time
there arises any form of attachment to the idea of being something.
Each conception of "I am," "I was," or "I will" is simultaneously
a birth.

This is the meaning of "birth" in Dhamma language.
Therefore, whenever one encounters the word "birth," one must be very
careful to understand its meaning in each particular context."

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Budd...on/NORELIG.HTM

12-05-2011, 03:36 AM	#36
Gosxjqum Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 485 Senior Member	To repeat what I've said before, this "deep level" I refer to is easily understood in the following way. You are in a plane plunging towards earth and feel you're going to die. Do you concentrate on your rebirth at that time...what type, where, etc. or...do you react purely in an existential manner...clinging to this very life, because you don't feel there's any life or consciousness or continuity for you other than right here, right now. There are many people who may speak of rebirth as if it exists who will quickly reject it (due to grave doubt) when plunging to earth in that plane. I know, I'm one of them (just some bad turbulence, in my case, was all it took!). if that was actually happening to me, I don't think thoughts about rebirth or clinging to life would even enter my mind as the plane plunged to earth. I'd just be present with whatever was happening at the time. I think also that if one is in a state of shock then mental processes can temporarily stand still. Regarding the subject of other 'realms' I like what Ajahn Buddhadasa had to say here in 'No religion': "The words "birth" and "death" require the same discrimination regarding language. In people language, the word "birth" means to be born from a mother's womb. In Dhamma language, however, the word "birth" means some form of attachment is born. This kind of birth happens every time we allow the arising of a thought or feeling which involves grasping and clinging to something as "I" or "mine," such as, "I am," "I have," "I think," and "I do." This is the birth of the "I" or the ego. For example, think like a criminal and one is instantly born as a criminal. A few moments later those thoughts disappear, one thinks like a normal human being again and is born as a human being once more. If a few moments later one has foolish thoughts, right then one is born as a fool. If one then thinks in an increasingly foolish and dull manner, one will be born as an animal immediately. Whenever an attachment is felt intensely--when it burns inside one with the heat of fire--one is born as a demon in hell. Whenever one is so hungry and thirsty that one could never be satiated, one is born as an insatiably hungry ghost. When one is overly cautious and timid without reason, one is born a cowardly titan. Thus, in a single day one can be born any number of times in many different forms, since a birth takes place each and every time there arises any form of attachment to the idea of being something. Each conception of "I am," "I was," or "I will" is simultaneously a birth. This is the meaning of "birth" in Dhamma language. Therefore, whenever one encounters the word "birth," one must be very careful to understand its meaning in each particular context." http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Budd...on/NORELIG.HTM
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