DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Emptiness - break off thread from the beginners section.

**uphokyhuP** · 11-25-2011, 09:36 PM

thinking that one has moved closer to perceiving emptiness directly based on having an intellectual understanding of it can actually become a source of pride and arrogance which brings that practitioner further and further away from the goal of Buddhism---to remove fundamental ignorance through non-conceptual discernment

Hi tjampel,
Very much agree with this point. I guess having spent time in the company of Gelugpa scholars in my early days I was left with the overriding impression that an intellectual grasp of the matter was a sublime condition well beyond the reach of most and was considered the 'last word' on Buddha's teachings. Like you say, this can breed a certain contempt of "simple" teachings which one considers are aimed at the 'masses'.

How could breathing meditation compare to Chandrakirti's Sevenfold Reasoning for example???

It took me a long time to break free of that spell.

Only after years of practice is it said that he saw emptiness directly. This was a good 20 years after he'd become one of the greatest Emptiness scholars of Tibet. Absolutely.

no matter how perfect a reason is posited, no matter how well the reason applies to the assertion, it is of absolutely no value in terms of its liberative capability without the ability to attain deep meditative absorption and apply analysis within that absorption and achieve non-conceptual discernment. Spot on again! No amount of telling myself that Pamela Anderson was empty of inherent existence ever made a difference

It's insight gained in meditation which begins to undermine our habitual thought patterns and reactions.

Namaste
Kris

11-25-2011, 09:36 PM	#37
uphokyhuP Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 399 Senior Member	thinking that one has moved closer to perceiving emptiness directly based on having an intellectual understanding of it can actually become a source of pride and arrogance which brings that practitioner further and further away from the goal of Buddhism---to remove fundamental ignorance through non-conceptual discernment Hi tjampel, Very much agree with this point. I guess having spent time in the company of Gelugpa scholars in my early days I was left with the overriding impression that an intellectual grasp of the matter was a sublime condition well beyond the reach of most and was considered the 'last word' on Buddha's teachings. Like you say, this can breed a certain contempt of "simple" teachings which one considers are aimed at the 'masses'. How could breathing meditation compare to Chandrakirti's Sevenfold Reasoning for example??? It took me a long time to break free of that spell. Only after years of practice is it said that he saw emptiness directly. This was a good 20 years after he'd become one of the greatest Emptiness scholars of Tibet. Absolutely. no matter how perfect a reason is posited, no matter how well the reason applies to the assertion, it is of absolutely no value in terms of its liberative capability without the ability to attain deep meditative absorption and apply analysis within that absorption and achieve non-conceptual discernment. Spot on again! No amount of telling myself that Pamela Anderson was empty of inherent existence ever made a difference It's insight gained in meditation which begins to undermine our habitual thought patterns and reactions. Namaste Kris
	Quote