DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - The Wheel of Life and Death as mental states

**bettingonosports** · 10-05-2011, 07:36 PM

Is it recessary to become entangled in speculation about literal post-mortem rebirth? Is it not enough to interpret rebirth as a series of different mental states we experience in the same lifetime?

What are your opinions on this?

Hello,

I don't think that it is necessary to become entangled in speculation about "literal post-mortem rebirth". But I also think we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water.

To refer to future events (after death or not) as "mine", "me" or "my self" is as wrong as doing it with regard to the present or past. But unless we are at least stream-enterers, we can't help doing so (even if we think that we shouldn't, we don't know how not to do it). So as long as the present is "mine", past and future will be "mine" too.

Whether I relate to the time after the break-up of this body by means of "a new body" or by means of "no more body" - in both cases I relate to it as either "my" new body or "my" extinction - and in both cases this is equally wrong. But - and that is the important point - it is not the presence (or absence) of a another body which makes it wrong, it is the appropriation of that state as "mine, me, my self". In the same way the present body/life is not non-existent just because it is "not mine, not me, not my self" either. This body or life is just "more present" than past or future ones, so to speak.

I understand the discoures of the Buddha about past and future lives in that sense, i.e. that ignorance and suffering will be there as long as they are not eradicated, and that includes future lives (which, because of ignorance, will be as much "mine" as this one). Speculation is not necessary - but an awareness of the limits of one's (current) understanding.

Best wishes,

Phygro

10-05-2011, 07:36 PM	#9
bettingonosports Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 498 Senior Member	Is it recessary to become entangled in speculation about literal post-mortem rebirth? Is it not enough to interpret rebirth as a series of different mental states we experience in the same lifetime? What are your opinions on this? Hello, I don't think that it is necessary to become entangled in speculation about "literal post-mortem rebirth". But I also think we have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. To refer to future events (after death or not) as "mine", "me" or "my self" is as wrong as doing it with regard to the present or past. But unless we are at least stream-enterers, we can't help doing so (even if we think that we shouldn't, we don't know how not to do it). So as long as the present is "mine", past and future will be "mine" too. Whether I relate to the time after the break-up of this body by means of "a new body" or by means of "no more body" - in both cases I relate to it as either "my" new body or "my" extinction - and in both cases this is equally wrong. But - and that is the important point - it is not the presence (or absence) of a another body which makes it wrong, it is the appropriation of that state as "mine, me, my self". In the same way the present body/life is not non-existent just because it is "not mine, not me, not my self" either. This body or life is just "more present" than past or future ones, so to speak. I understand the discoures of the Buddha about past and future lives in that sense, i.e. that ignorance and suffering will be there as long as they are not eradicated, and that includes future lives (which, because of ignorance, will be as much "mine" as this one). Speculation is not necessary - but an awareness of the limits of one's (current) understanding. Best wishes, Phygro
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