5. The king said: 'Where there is no transmigration, Nâgasena, can there be rebirth?' 'Yes, there can.' 'But how can that be? Give me an illustration.' 'Suppose a man, O king, were to light a lamp from another lamp, can it be said that the one transmigrates from, or to, the other?' 'Certainly not.' 'Just so, great king, is rebirth without transmigration.'