[rhiniddibiarmr]

Do you know, Element, which suttas from the DN can be under this case?

hi KA

i do not know the DN very well. but i think one can only compare it to other suttas

for example, the Kevaddha Sutta is quite anti-Brahmanical and its only equivalent (to my knowledge) is MN 49, which is also anti-Brahmanical. both of these suttas contain the verse: "consciousness without feature, luminous all round, etc" as a description of Nibbana. so one can draw the conclusion they may be later additions to the suttas

the Mahanidana Sutta is different to the other suttas and the definitions of consciousness & nama-rupa in the Mahanidana Sutta and the exclusion of the six sense media make a strong case for the conclusion that the Buddha did not speak it

there are dozens of suttas that describe consciousness as the sixfold consciousness and only the Mahanidana Sutta describes consciousness in the way it does. (nama-rupa is probably the same)



Maha-nidana Sutta

If there were no birth at all, in any way, of anything anywhere — i.e., of devas in the state of devas, of celestials in the state of celestials, of spirits in the state of spirits, of demons in the state of demons, of human beings in the human state, of quadrupeds in the state of quadrupeds, of birds in the state of birds, of snakes in the state of snakes, or of any being in its own state

If there were no craving at all, in any way, of anything anywhere — i.e., craving for sensuality, craving for becoming, craving for no becoming

And what are the six sense media? ABSENT from sutta

And this is the way to understand how, from name-&-form as a requisite condition comes contact. If the qualities, traits, themes, & indicators by which there is a description of name-group (mental activity) were all absent, would designation-contact with regard to the form-group (the physical properties)

And this is the way to understand how from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-and-form. If consciousness were not to descend into the mother's womb, would name-and-form take shape in the womb?" If the consciousness of the young boy or girl were to be cut off, would name-and-form ripen, grow, and reach maturity?"

And what are fabrications? ABSENT from sutta

"And what is ignorance? ABSENT from sutta Paticca-samuppada-vibhanga Sutta and Sammaditthi Sutta

And what is birth? Whatever birth, taking birth, descent, coming-to-be, coming-forth, appearance of aggregates, & acquisition of [sense] media of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called birth.

"And what is craving? These six are classes of craving: craving for forms, craving for sounds, craving for smells, craving for tastes, craving for tactile sensations, craving for ideas. This is called craving.

And what are the six sense media? These six are sense media: the eye-medium, the ear-medium, the nose-medium, the tongue-medium, the body-medium, the intellect-medium. These are called the six sense media.

And what is name-&-form? Feeling, perception, intention, contact, & attention: This is called name. The four great elements, and the form dependent on the four great elements: This is called form. This name & this form are called name-&-form.

And what is consciousness? These six are classes of consciousness: eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-consciousness, intellect-consciousness. This is called consciousness.

And what are fabrications? These three are fabrications: bodily fabrications, verbal fabrications, mental fabrications. These are called fabrications.

"And what is ignorance? Not knowing stress, not knowing the origination of stress, not knowing the cessation of stress, not knowing the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress: This is called ignorance.