[Illirmpipse]

Probably they were better in some ways, worse in others. Our times are also a mixed bag.

I think this is highly speculative. And the mixed bag is always happening.

I think many Western practitioners have a discomfort/aversion with what they regard as the superstitious elements in traditional/Asian Buddhism. And sure, those elements are there. But it's probably worth subjecting our unease to examination as well -- because this may be our particular prison. Maybe I was not clear in post # 4. Superstition is not found just around "traditional/Asian Buddhism" as you say. Superstition is something beyond the dichotomy (or boxes) you address: Western/Eastern, Asian/European, etc. Superstition is of psychological nature; about human nature. It is not just about Buddhism as religion. Modern world is superstitious in many ways too. And that is the reading I have got from the Ajahn quoted teaching.

What he is addressing is what happens when there is awareness of mind; what happens when we develop Right View, when we contemplate Anatta, Anicca and Dukkha with insight and with a tranquil mind. The superstition prison vanishes as many other prisons we are into, will do.

You speak about East/West as opposites but "westerns" (to speak in terms of boxes) tend to make a religion out of science; that is superstitious. And the other way, "easterners" have made a science out from their religious believes and thier blind faiths and lack of critical reasoning; that is superstitious too. Altars are found in Eastern religious temples and in the Finance Buildings in NYC. It is superstitious to believe in the many Mahayana colorful iconic "Buddhas" or to believe in the the words of Deepak Chopra.

What Ajahn is telling is not to be deluded by this sort of views. Where is the problem with that? It is a personal choice. Superstitious is to believe that if you fed a sacred statue with water will bring you a peaceful mind as to have a big bank account that you fed it with dollars. It is human nature.

Personally I do not feel unease if you or others are into superstitious believes. Fortunately, the teachings of the historical Buddha are out from this controversy. Buddhism's, not. Traditions, not. The proper way to keep a healthy distance from superstitious believes is to support ourselves with the teachings of the historical Buddha. The rest is just history. And we can easily get entangled into that, if you like to.

The point isn't to stand inside a Western/modernist/rationalist box and point fingers at the silly traditional Buddhists in their silly superstitious box. That's cheap and easy, and where does it get us as far as our own liberation is concerned? The teachings of the historical Buddha are not a Western/modernist/traditionalist box or any kind of box at all. Also I have never seen those boxes until now. What I see is cultural add-ons, not boxes. Just average human behaviour.

Buddhadasa was coming from a particular context. He was a Thai Buddhist who understood the morass his own cultural/religious tradition had fallen into, and provided an appropriate antidote. From the point of view of Theravada in Thailand, he was going against the grain. But when Westerners with modernist inclinations invoke Buddhadasa, are we going against the grain or simply reinforcing our predispositions? I am unaware of this. I really do not get into such and such. I just read an opinion about a universal issue that is superstitious believes and behaviour and I agree with it. Superstition is a psychological need where a self property is adressed to something that did not have such self property.

I don't know if this is to reinforce predispositions or to go against the grain. I have never been into religions; but being here, I have seen the huge amount of religious believes that some members have developed around teachings that warns us against such behaviours and believes; call them philosophy, call them faith or whatever. I have never seen any self property in a religious statue, a religious painting or an altar. When mind is at peace, still, aware, tranquil and clear this argumentation has no sense at all.