DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - dependent origination- a dilemma

**LesLattis** · 06-13-2011, 07:39 PM

I can guess that there are some misleading assumptions and believes that I will bring here to analyse them in open contrast with the Pali teachings.

For example, the book you mention, to say, the best intent of all his series, in a honest intent to be loyal to the teachings of the historical Buddha unable always to set aside the cultural perspective and cultural "add-ons" of a religious believe set in a poetic way, speaks about the Fifth Khandha in a quiet imprecise way mixing the Khandha doctrine of the Fifth Agregate with a kind of Alaya Vijñana with consciousness as a root or permanent kind of Khandha; I will later bring the Pali Dhamma versus the Thich personal view quotes.

This examples illustrate that, along the lines and between the lines, the general argumentative expositions of all Thich's books where he brings the Mahayana religion into a kind of "everythingness" as a derivative of his interbeingness what is his particular world view and main doctrine known as "interbeing" which is a very personal outcome of his understanding as a melting pot between some Zen core issues and the Mahayana religious thought. Along his reading, the treatment he gives to DO is under this approach. He finally permeates what are the main teachings of the historical Buddha with his interbeing very personal elaboration with endless poetic adornments that can lead away people out of the central aspect of what the teachings are asking us to practice in the Pali and endangering its proper practice asked by the historical Buddha into the entangled views and wide world processes.

I'd agree that you are not going to find "interbeing" in the Pali suttas, because it's a Mahayana teaching -- another name for sunyata. The sources are Nagarjuna and the prajnaparamita texts.

As we know from the Heart Sutra, Mahayana regards sunyata as transcending dependent origination, in the sense that it includes D.O. and has a broader (universal) scope.

Therefore, Sariputra, in emptiness there is no form, no sensation, no perception, no volition, no consciousness, no eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind; no sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, thought. There is no realm of sight, through to no realm of cognition. There is no ignorance or ending of ignorance, through to no aging and death or ending of aging and death. ...which means that sunyata applies to the twelve links also, as it does to all dharmas -- according to Mahayana. From the Theravada perspective this at best an unnecessary add-on, and at worst an ontological monster. To understand why Nagarjuna developed this doctrine, we would need to know something about the debates that were going on among various Buddhist schools at the time (first couple centuries C.E.), and the logical problems they were seeking to address.

Because people tend to associate the word "emptiness" with nihilism, Mahayana teachers have tried to present it in a way that does not have nihilistic connotations. That's a likely reason for Thich Nhat Hanh's use of the term "interbeing".

06-13-2011, 07:39 PM	#15
LesLattis Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 616 Senior Member	I can guess that there are some misleading assumptions and believes that I will bring here to analyse them in open contrast with the Pali teachings. For example, the book you mention, to say, the best intent of all his series, in a honest intent to be loyal to the teachings of the historical Buddha unable always to set aside the cultural perspective and cultural "add-ons" of a religious believe set in a poetic way, speaks about the Fifth Khandha in a quiet imprecise way mixing the Khandha doctrine of the Fifth Agregate with a kind of Alaya Vijñana with consciousness as a root or permanent kind of Khandha; I will later bring the Pali Dhamma versus the Thich personal view quotes. This examples illustrate that, along the lines and between the lines, the general argumentative expositions of all Thich's books where he brings the Mahayana religion into a kind of "everythingness" as a derivative of his interbeingness what is his particular world view and main doctrine known as "interbeing" which is a very personal outcome of his understanding as a melting pot between some Zen core issues and the Mahayana religious thought. Along his reading, the treatment he gives to DO is under this approach. He finally permeates what are the main teachings of the historical Buddha with his interbeing very personal elaboration with endless poetic adornments that can lead away people out of the central aspect of what the teachings are asking us to practice in the Pali and endangering its proper practice asked by the historical Buddha into the entangled views and wide world processes. I'd agree that you are not going to find "interbeing" in the Pali suttas, because it's a Mahayana teaching -- another name for sunyata. The sources are Nagarjuna and the prajnaparamita texts. As we know from the Heart Sutra, Mahayana regards sunyata as transcending dependent origination, in the sense that it includes D.O. and has a broader (universal) scope. Therefore, Sariputra, in emptiness there is no form, no sensation, no perception, no volition, no consciousness, no eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, mind; no sight, sound, smell, taste, touch, thought. There is no realm of sight, through to no realm of cognition. There is no ignorance or ending of ignorance, through to no aging and death or ending of aging and death. ...which means that sunyata applies to the twelve links also, as it does to all dharmas -- according to Mahayana. From the Theravada perspective this at best an unnecessary add-on, and at worst an ontological monster. To understand why Nagarjuna developed this doctrine, we would need to know something about the debates that were going on among various Buddhist schools at the time (first couple centuries C.E.), and the logical problems they were seeking to address. Because people tend to associate the word "emptiness" with nihilism, Mahayana teachers have tried to present it in a way that does not have nihilistic connotations. That's a likely reason for Thich Nhat Hanh's use of the term "interbeing".
	Quote