DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - dependent origination- a dilemma

**YpciJQdo** · 06-13-2011, 11:28 PM

thank you all for your replies.

sorry, came to net after 24 hours d/t busy schedule and so late to acknowledge.

i got the impression from the posts that understanding of the dependent origination with respect to elimination of ignorance and suffering is all that matters and hence the twelve links of dependent origination is the most relevant. that was a very good point indeed, coz buddhism is solely aimed towards ending suffering as evidenced by the four noble truths.

when i mentioned dependent origination in my post, i didnt specifically mean it for the twelve links but rather in a more general sense , more like interdependent coorigination for all phenomena. it was more of an analytical exercise on emptiness of all phenomena. i was wondering if emptiness can ever be communicated properly within the limitation of conventional language as the expression of emptiness in language through the use of words for which our conventional mind already assumes some inherencies makes it a very difficult job i guess.

may be it is something to be experienced directly in meditation to be fully convinced of. if all phenomena lack an essence, how can we make the statement" everything is empty because it arises dependent upon so many other factors", when infact there is no other factor to point to, each factor vanishing instantly as we point to it by applying the same reason. yet, phenomena are still manifesting dependent on phantom factors which inturn depend on other phantom factors and so on ad infinitum. so when we say "phenomena exist dependent on factors", are we supposed to take it at face value as it is and dont go further than that ,it being a futile exercise?

or maybe, as posted earlier, realising the emptiness of mind is all that matters rather than delving into the emptiness of external phenomena.

i thank everybody for their replies and the links provided. i am yet to go through all the links. going through the posts has been pretty enriching so far. i am sure the links will definitely add on to that.

peace.

06-13-2011, 11:28 PM	#23
YpciJQdo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 395 Senior Member	thank you all for your replies. sorry, came to net after 24 hours d/t busy schedule and so late to acknowledge. i got the impression from the posts that understanding of the dependent origination with respect to elimination of ignorance and suffering is all that matters and hence the twelve links of dependent origination is the most relevant. that was a very good point indeed, coz buddhism is solely aimed towards ending suffering as evidenced by the four noble truths. when i mentioned dependent origination in my post, i didnt specifically mean it for the twelve links but rather in a more general sense , more like interdependent coorigination for all phenomena. it was more of an analytical exercise on emptiness of all phenomena. i was wondering if emptiness can ever be communicated properly within the limitation of conventional language as the expression of emptiness in language through the use of words for which our conventional mind already assumes some inherencies makes it a very difficult job i guess. may be it is something to be experienced directly in meditation to be fully convinced of. if all phenomena lack an essence, how can we make the statement" everything is empty because it arises dependent upon so many other factors", when infact there is no other factor to point to, each factor vanishing instantly as we point to it by applying the same reason. yet, phenomena are still manifesting dependent on phantom factors which inturn depend on other phantom factors and so on ad infinitum. so when we say "phenomena exist dependent on factors", are we supposed to take it at face value as it is and dont go further than that ,it being a futile exercise? or maybe, as posted earlier, realising the emptiness of mind is all that matters rather than delving into the emptiness of external phenomena. i thank everybody for their replies and the links provided. i am yet to go through all the links. going through the posts has been pretty enriching so far. i am sure the links will definitely add on to that. peace.
	Quote