Just a suggestion, David, but If you haven't done so already, it might be an idea to look at the guidelines for this debating forum at the beginning of the topic list for Beyond Belief. quote from the guidelines: "If you disapprove of any of the lively discussions taking place in this forum, or prefer to take a more orthodox position, or get easily offended, then you can simply avoid it ! There are plenty of other forums on the website in which one can interact or post new topics" (Politeness still applies of course) with kind wishes, Aloka-D