DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - 4 Questions for Matthieu Ricard, Tibetan monk

**joulseenjoync** · 04-14-2011, 11:16 PM

Hi Philosophia,
On a mundane level, there is no sense of 'I' in deep sleep, rather it emerges as we wake up or enter the dream state. So even with this example you can see that it's impermanent and some kind of 'fabricated' thing.

But remember, there is also no conscious experience in deep sleep so of course there is no sense of "I". Naturally the sense of "I" depends on consciousness and in deep sleep, one is unconscious. But as long as there is conscious experience, there will be a sense of "I" however one wants to define that sense- either as truly existing or inherently nonexistent. They can tell themselves that the sense is an illusion, but that does not prevent the sense from continuing. The fact that I know a mirage is an illusion doesn't prevent me from seeing, sensing it, and experiencing it all the same. Sure, it may not be water, but it is something. I may never know what is is, but I sense it nonetheless.

So is eternal and irrevocable "deep sleep"/unconsciousness the final end of this process of experience for "you" and "I"? I guess that Buddhist spirituality conforms exactly with materialist reductionism in this respect- in that the final analysis conscious experience will eventually yield to its own eternal and irrevocable extinction/annihilation.

04-14-2011, 11:16 PM	#12
joulseenjoync Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 488 Senior Member	Hi Philosophia, On a mundane level, there is no sense of 'I' in deep sleep, rather it emerges as we wake up or enter the dream state. So even with this example you can see that it's impermanent and some kind of 'fabricated' thing. But remember, there is also no conscious experience in deep sleep so of course there is no sense of "I". Naturally the sense of "I" depends on consciousness and in deep sleep, one is unconscious. But as long as there is conscious experience, there will be a sense of "I" however one wants to define that sense- either as truly existing or inherently nonexistent. They can tell themselves that the sense is an illusion, but that does not prevent the sense from continuing. The fact that I know a mirage is an illusion doesn't prevent me from seeing, sensing it, and experiencing it all the same. Sure, it may not be water, but it is something. I may never know what is is, but I sense it nonetheless. So is eternal and irrevocable "deep sleep"/unconsciousness the final end of this process of experience for "you" and "I"? I guess that Buddhist spirituality conforms exactly with materialist reductionism in this respect- in that the final analysis conscious experience will eventually yield to its own eternal and irrevocable extinction/annihilation.
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