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**Quvwcxqx** · 04-02-2011, 01:16 PM

The meaning of 'suffering does not exist' is that it has no inherent existence. Yes, of course it occurs! But it arises out of conditions.

OK. I listened again to the video. Lama Choedak did (quickly) actually say what you are saying. He probably should have explained what he said in a little more detail & clarity, in case the listener discerned an unintended meaning.

Please note: I know Lama Choedak, who I regard as an excellent teacher, having heard him speak a few times when he visits our community once a year.

But for me, the use of the terms "no inherent existence" and "impute" is too ambiguous.

Imo, it makes little difference to perceive a mind is suffering from "suffering" or to perceive a mind is suffering from suffering's cause, namely, ignorance. The mind is still suffering from something, be it full blown delusion (becoming) or simply the primary root of ignorance.

But (again, lol), for me, it cannot be said: "There is no ignorance". Ignorance has no underlying cause (but can be erased by wisdom).

For me, the essense of the talk is excellent. Plus it is an excellent topic. But still, I would use language differently.

After reading the words "no inherent existence" and "impute" for a few years now on chatsites, I finally realise what is attempting to be communicated. Still, for me, the language does not flow well.

By using the term "imputing suffering", Lama Choedak seems to be saying we ordinarily (unenlightenedly) see just the experience of suffering rather than see all of the underlying causes.

That is, if we alternatively see: "There is no suffering, there is only its causes, such as ignorance", then our view and "emotional" relationship will change.

OK, I have finally learned some Mahayana

im·put·ed, im·put·ing, im·putes

1. To relate to a particular cause or source; attribute the fault or responsibility to: imputed the rocket failure to a faulty gasket; kindly imputed my clumsiness to inexperience.

2. To assign as a characteristic; credit: the gracefulness so often imputed to cats.

04-02-2011, 01:16 PM	#29
Quvwcxqx Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 402 Senior Member	The meaning of 'suffering does not exist' is that it has no inherent existence. Yes, of course it occurs! But it arises out of conditions. OK. I listened again to the video. Lama Choedak did (quickly) actually say what you are saying. He probably should have explained what he said in a little more detail & clarity, in case the listener discerned an unintended meaning. Please note: I know Lama Choedak, who I regard as an excellent teacher, having heard him speak a few times when he visits our community once a year. But for me, the use of the terms "no inherent existence" and "impute" is too ambiguous. Imo, it makes little difference to perceive a mind is suffering from "suffering" or to perceive a mind is suffering from suffering's cause, namely, ignorance. The mind is still suffering from something, be it full blown delusion (becoming) or simply the primary root of ignorance. But (again, lol), for me, it cannot be said: "There is no ignorance". Ignorance has no underlying cause (but can be erased by wisdom). For me, the essense of the talk is excellent. Plus it is an excellent topic. But still, I would use language differently. After reading the words "no inherent existence" and "impute" for a few years now on chatsites, I finally realise what is attempting to be communicated. Still, for me, the language does not flow well. By using the term "imputing suffering", Lama Choedak seems to be saying we ordinarily (unenlightenedly) see just the experience of suffering rather than see all of the underlying causes. That is, if we alternatively see: "There is no suffering, there is only its causes, such as ignorance", then our view and "emotional" relationship will change. OK, I have finally learned some Mahayana im·put·ed, im·put·ing, im·putes 1. To relate to a particular cause or source; attribute the fault or responsibility to: imputed the rocket failure to a faulty gasket; kindly imputed my clumsiness to inexperience. 2. To assign as a characteristic; credit: the gracefulness so often imputed to cats.
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