DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - What significance does the concept of Pure Abodes and Heavens have for you?

**allvideO** · 08-31-2010, 06:48 AM

I think we should never discredit the fact that we can have 'teachers' who further our progress and give us spiritual aid in sometimes the least expected places and circumstances.

In today's Buddhist (and non-buddhist )world we get told about many (mostly men) people who are accomplished masters. Good persuasive PR work in some instances, especially if one is gullible and told beforehand that this person is "an enlightened Buddha" ! I find the gender imbalance unfortunate as well. Have not had the experience of PR work. Maybe having had experiences with a couple of teachers outside of teachings first changed my perspective. Though I have run across some (what I believe to be) fake teachings & teachers, much later... it is not pretty.

It's also worth remembering that the truly enlightened might not necessarily promote themselves through a Buddhist organisation, do TV shows, or have adoring fans who talk of little else others than their gurus and their perceived accomplishments.

who does TV shows?

I don't deny that there's benefit from contact with genuine teachers - but maybe we also have to throw away the crutches, let go of the prop at some point ...and just walk by ourselves. The way I see it, we really have no choice but to do that as contact is far from continuous, at least for me. I also kinda think of the guru as symbol as much as a person. Sometimes even more as a symbol than a person, at least in Guru Yoga practice. I think...

Blind faith and excessive devotion to other 'guru' human beings can sometimes lead to fanaticism and unbeneficial fuzzy devotional feel-good states, which can actually hinder spiritual progess rather than help it. Hard to see when one is in the middle of it, of course. I think devotion is very powerful, no matter what the context. Whether to a guru, lover, leader, or idea. When devotion is really strong our normal protective barriers are not present. Whether or not this is beneficial seems to be really situation specific. Any which way it is very threatening for me, and I would imagine many others, especially when it involves a lover or guru. If we open ourselves with this trust only as much as we are ready and with someone who is worthy of the trust, then I think it is beneficial. If we open too much, too soon, or with someone who is really not that experienced themselves the results can be disastrous to say the least. Especially with a teacher that is not realized (I have actually experienced this somewhat, though not in the context of Buddhism). From my perspective this is probably the greatest danger of a Guru-devotional system like Vajrayana Buddhism.

The issues of blind faith is very interesting to me, perhaps worthy of another topic, probably too much to explore with depth here.

So yes, as I mentioned before in an earlier post, for me it all harks back to different mental states rather than exterior 'realms' out there somewhere. One's own mental state can be a 'pure realm'.

Also relevant too is the old saying "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

hands

I wonder if one's mental state is a pure realm, is that the same thing as the exterior realm being pure?

(Edited by stuka to fix quotes)

08-31-2010, 06:48 AM	#25
allvideO Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 665 Senior Member	I think we should never discredit the fact that we can have 'teachers' who further our progress and give us spiritual aid in sometimes the least expected places and circumstances. In today's Buddhist (and non-buddhist )world we get told about many (mostly men) people who are accomplished masters. Good persuasive PR work in some instances, especially if one is gullible and told beforehand that this person is "an enlightened Buddha" ! I find the gender imbalance unfortunate as well. Have not had the experience of PR work. Maybe having had experiences with a couple of teachers outside of teachings first changed my perspective. Though I have run across some (what I believe to be) fake teachings & teachers, much later... it is not pretty. It's also worth remembering that the truly enlightened might not necessarily promote themselves through a Buddhist organisation, do TV shows, or have adoring fans who talk of little else others than their gurus and their perceived accomplishments. who does TV shows? I don't deny that there's benefit from contact with genuine teachers - but maybe we also have to throw away the crutches, let go of the prop at some point ...and just walk by ourselves. The way I see it, we really have no choice but to do that as contact is far from continuous, at least for me. I also kinda think of the guru as symbol as much as a person. Sometimes even more as a symbol than a person, at least in Guru Yoga practice. I think... Blind faith and excessive devotion to other 'guru' human beings can sometimes lead to fanaticism and unbeneficial fuzzy devotional feel-good states, which can actually hinder spiritual progess rather than help it. Hard to see when one is in the middle of it, of course. I think devotion is very powerful, no matter what the context. Whether to a guru, lover, leader, or idea. When devotion is really strong our normal protective barriers are not present. Whether or not this is beneficial seems to be really situation specific. Any which way it is very threatening for me, and I would imagine many others, especially when it involves a lover or guru. If we open ourselves with this trust only as much as we are ready and with someone who is worthy of the trust, then I think it is beneficial. If we open too much, too soon, or with someone who is really not that experienced themselves the results can be disastrous to say the least. Especially with a teacher that is not realized (I have actually experienced this somewhat, though not in the context of Buddhism). From my perspective this is probably the greatest danger of a Guru-devotional system like Vajrayana Buddhism. The issues of blind faith is very interesting to me, perhaps worthy of another topic, probably too much to explore with depth here. So yes, as I mentioned before in an earlier post, for me it all harks back to different mental states rather than exterior 'realms' out there somewhere. One's own mental state can be a 'pure realm'. Also relevant too is the old saying "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." hands I wonder if one's mental state is a pure realm, is that the same thing as the exterior realm being pure? (Edited by stuka to fix quotes)
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