DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Debating origins of Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism

**beneitpedro** · 08-27-2010, 04:42 AM

It is Buddhist tradition to believe the Truth and not who said it.

Actually, it is the Buddhist tradition to investigate phenomena. "Believing" the "Truth" is the domain of superstition.

Supposing Nagarguna had established a religion

Then it would be Nagarjuna-ism, rather than Buddhism.

going further than the Buddha's preaching in the [i]Hinayana[/h]

Please refrain from using that offensive word in this forum.

(though now only the Theravadins of the Southern Buddhist traditions remain as an independent school)

This is self-serving tibetan propaganda and untrue.

then we should believe Nagarjuna and not the Buddha, since the former taught the ultimate and complete truth

Good luck with your "Nagarjuna-ism". Rejecting the Buddha's teachings, however, what are you doing here?

In the Prajnaparamita Sutra

....which never crossed the Buddha's lips...

Our faith relies on truth and not on persons.
We believe in the truth itself but not in letter or word of scripture.
And in the ultimate but not in the incomplete truth.

...which makes it easy to make up as one goes along, ignoring the Buddha's teachings and creating a different religion. Which is fine, but it is kind of silly to claim that it is still "Buddhism".

Finally we lay stress on wisdom of realisation(prajna) and not on mere consciousness(vijnana) of the human mind.

Another tibetan-arrogant straw dog. The Buddha's teachings and the traditions that hold to them do not "lay stress on mere consciousness of the human mind".

In the Mahayana it is never said that the [edit: Theravada] is not Buddha-word,...

Wherein the mahayana admits its own eisegeses. But doesn't realize it because no one RTFM's.

It is said that the Buddha preached the Lesser as a foundation for the Greater Vehicle

A convenient self-serving lie used to introduce outside doctrines.

and this despite the fact that the Mahayana is already so complete

The Buddha proclaimed that his own teachings (the Nikayas) are complete and not in need of embellishments. But he also predicted that folks would ignore his teachings and push their own ideas as Buddhism:

SN 20.7: Ani Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....007.than.html

Staying at Savatthi. "Monks, there once was a time when the Dasarahas had a large drum called 'Summoner.' Whenever Summoner was split, the Dasarahas inserted another peg in it, until the time came when Summoner's original wooden body had disappeared and only a conglomeration of pegs remained.

"In the same way, in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited.

They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.

"In this way the disappearance of the discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — will come about.

"Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. We will lend ear, will set our hearts on knowing them, will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.' That's how you should train yourselves."

08-27-2010, 04:42 AM	#16
beneitpedro Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 488 Senior Member	It is Buddhist tradition to believe the Truth and not who said it. Actually, it is the Buddhist tradition to investigate phenomena. "Believing" the "Truth" is the domain of superstition. Supposing Nagarguna had established a religion Then it would be Nagarjuna-ism, rather than Buddhism. going further than the Buddha's preaching in the [i]Hinayana[/h] Please refrain from using that offensive word in this forum. (though now only the Theravadins of the Southern Buddhist traditions remain as an independent school) This is self-serving tibetan propaganda and untrue. then we should believe Nagarjuna and not the Buddha, since the former taught the ultimate and complete truth Good luck with your "Nagarjuna-ism". Rejecting the Buddha's teachings, however, what are you doing here? In the Prajnaparamita Sutra ....which never crossed the Buddha's lips... Our faith relies on truth and not on persons. We believe in the truth itself but not in letter or word of scripture. And in the ultimate but not in the incomplete truth. ...which makes it easy to make up as one goes along, ignoring the Buddha's teachings and creating a different religion. Which is fine, but it is kind of silly to claim that it is still "Buddhism". Finally we lay stress on wisdom of realisation(prajna) and not on mere consciousness(vijnana) of the human mind. Another tibetan-arrogant straw dog. The Buddha's teachings and the traditions that hold to them do not "lay stress on mere consciousness of the human mind". In the Mahayana it is never said that the [edit: Theravada] is not Buddha-word,... Wherein the mahayana admits its own eisegeses. But doesn't realize it because no one RTFM's. It is said that the Buddha preached the Lesser as a foundation for the Greater Vehicle A convenient self-serving lie used to introduce outside doctrines. and this despite the fact that the Mahayana is already so complete The Buddha proclaimed that his own teachings (the Nikayas) are complete and not in need of embellishments. But he also predicted that folks would ignore his teachings and push their own ideas as Buddhism: SN 20.7: Ani Sutta http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....007.than.html Staying at Savatthi. "Monks, there once was a time when the Dasarahas had a large drum called 'Summoner.' Whenever Summoner was split, the Dasarahas inserted another peg in it, until the time came when Summoner's original wooden body had disappeared and only a conglomeration of pegs remained. "In the same way, in the course of the future there will be monks who won't listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. They won't lend ear, won't set their hearts on knowing them, won't regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But they will listen when discourses that are literary works — the works of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of outsiders, words of disciples — are recited. They will lend ear and set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering. "In this way the disappearance of the discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — will come about. "Thus you should train yourselves: 'We will listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent, connected with emptiness — are being recited. We will lend ear, will set our hearts on knowing them, will regard these teachings as worth grasping & mastering.' That's how you should train yourselves."
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