[AOE6q4bu]

thanks Troy

personally, i cannot really help you with your questions. you seem to be attached to concepts & trying to match your experiences with these concepts. if your mind had actually experienced these immaterial jhanas, you would not be asking these questions because so much attachment would be dissolved. in any genuine jhana, especially an arupa jhana, the tendency to conceptualise & grasp is strongly or completely eradicated.

in short, doubt is eradicated at the 1st jhana. but your posting shows your mind still has doubt

however, i would suggest joining this chatsite and post your questions there. the folks at this chatsite talk about what they perceive to be their "personal" jhana experiences

kind regards

element