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**ditpiler** · 08-02-2012, 05:08 AM

Yes, neither perception nor non-perception is again a perception. (Ref: Ajahn Brahm's book: Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond)

Beyond the 8th jhana is norodha samapatti, where all perceptions and feelings end. My assumption after some study of documented information/scripture is that the mind as a sense organ is not active during this state. Basically, the mind stops. So there is no rational way for a person to perceive during this absorption. All sensory activities are shut off. Realization should happen when arising from this state; when the mind starts again. A person wakes from this state either as an anagami or an arahath according to books. Naturally, after getting direct experience as to how things build up, I don't think there can be any doubts left in the mind.

hi deshy,
i've read somewhere (can't recall) that nirodha samapatti(ninth jhana) can be experienced with access concentration and that the jhanas are not entirely necessary for this to occur.
i believe the first time one experiences nirodha samapatti it may be sudden and last but a few mind moments, i read that this is called GLIMPSING nibbana and when the mind starts again and the senses come back on-line this person is sotapanna(the lowest degree of saints) 3 fetters have been extinguished identity view, doubt, clinging to rites and rituals.
with further practice one may then REALIZE nibbana (stronger experience so to speak) this time when the senses come back on-line this person will be either an arahant or anagami and will be able to drink from the stream at will so to speak.
does this agree with anything you may have read previously,

lala

08-02-2012, 05:08 AM	#14
ditpiler Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 481 Senior Member	Yes, neither perception nor non-perception is again a perception. (Ref: Ajahn Brahm's book: Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond) Beyond the 8th jhana is norodha samapatti, where all perceptions and feelings end. My assumption after some study of documented information/scripture is that the mind as a sense organ is not active during this state. Basically, the mind stops. So there is no rational way for a person to perceive during this absorption. All sensory activities are shut off. Realization should happen when arising from this state; when the mind starts again. A person wakes from this state either as an anagami or an arahath according to books. Naturally, after getting direct experience as to how things build up, I don't think there can be any doubts left in the mind. hi deshy, i've read somewhere (can't recall) that nirodha samapatti(ninth jhana) can be experienced with access concentration and that the jhanas are not entirely necessary for this to occur. i believe the first time one experiences nirodha samapatti it may be sudden and last but a few mind moments, i read that this is called GLIMPSING nibbana and when the mind starts again and the senses come back on-line this person is sotapanna(the lowest degree of saints) 3 fetters have been extinguished identity view, doubt, clinging to rites and rituals. with further practice one may then REALIZE nibbana (stronger experience so to speak) this time when the senses come back on-line this person will be either an arahant or anagami and will be able to drink from the stream at will so to speak. does this agree with anything you may have read previously, lala
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