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**Donadoni1809** · 06-15-2012, 05:47 PM

Hello Gerrardthor
The Buddha emphasised a middle way between nihilism and eternalism, stressing that both views would lead to discontentment (dukkha). This I pick up on as someting you are explaining in your own words, in your post above. One reason why the nihilist view leads to discontentment is as you say, it leads to no value in existing. This sense or feeling of no value is just a feeling and hence is subject to change and it has be born into existence through thinking. It is a wrong view which will lead to further suffering; as it is contrary to Buddha's teaching we must push on in our investigation.

One reason why eternalism leads to dukkha is that it implies there must be an eternal self or entity which we can call "mine/I". The issue with an eternal self is that there will always be an entity to cling to or under go suffering through impermanence, also no such knowable entity exits according to Buddha so it is again a wrong view (wrong idea) through conceit. This comes down to "perception and perceiver" where through perception a perceiver is born into being and this birth is what leads to death, lamentation and suffering. In turn this leads to further ignorance and the cycle you posted starts once more. There is a way out of the cycle whilst living, and this is eightfold noble path.

You are right, in my understanding also, the mind/thought is not capable of grasping nirvana (extinguishing of craving, hate and ignorance). The middle way is subtle and this is one reason the Buddha hesitated on teaching it. The point being we can find some solace in knowing that when we recognise we cannot grasp/think about nirvana easily then we are at least heading in the right direction when we come to admit that it alludes us.

Thanks for the post.
Oliver.

06-15-2012, 05:47 PM	#3
Donadoni1809 Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 543 Senior Member	Hello Gerrardthor The Buddha emphasised a middle way between nihilism and eternalism, stressing that both views would lead to discontentment (dukkha). This I pick up on as someting you are explaining in your own words, in your post above. One reason why the nihilist view leads to discontentment is as you say, it leads to no value in existing. This sense or feeling of no value is just a feeling and hence is subject to change and it has be born into existence through thinking. It is a wrong view which will lead to further suffering; as it is contrary to Buddha's teaching we must push on in our investigation. One reason why eternalism leads to dukkha is that it implies there must be an eternal self or entity which we can call "mine/I". The issue with an eternal self is that there will always be an entity to cling to or under go suffering through impermanence, also no such knowable entity exits according to Buddha so it is again a wrong view (wrong idea) through conceit. This comes down to "perception and perceiver" where through perception a perceiver is born into being and this birth is what leads to death, lamentation and suffering. In turn this leads to further ignorance and the cycle you posted starts once more. There is a way out of the cycle whilst living, and this is eightfold noble path. You are right, in my understanding also, the mind/thought is not capable of grasping nirvana (extinguishing of craving, hate and ignorance). The middle way is subtle and this is one reason the Buddha hesitated on teaching it. The point being we can find some solace in knowing that when we recognise we cannot grasp/think about nirvana easily then we are at least heading in the right direction when we come to admit that it alludes us. Thanks for the post. Oliver.
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