[DeronBoltonRen]

hi Thinker

for Prof Harvey, it is wrong to use the term 'noble truth' because, when using the common translation, the sermon states: "This noble truth of the arising of suffering is to be abandoned"

Prof Harvey suggests, if something is a "noble truth", why would be it be abandoned?

Prof Harvey seems to have used the word 'Ariya' to mean a noble person (Ariyan) instead of using 'ariya' as an adjective to mean 'faultless' or literally 'enemy-less'

instead of saying the four truths themselves are 'noble', Prof Harvey suggests the four truths make a human being 'noble'

then he has taken the word 'sacca' (truth) to mean 'true reality'

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for me, the following translation certainly flows well; it seems certainly practical

"Now this, bhikkhus, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the true reality which is pain: birth is painful, aging is painful, illness is painful, death is painful; sorrow, lamentation, physical pain, unhappiness and distress are painful; union with what is disliked is painful; separation from what is liked is painful; not to get what one wants is painful; in brief, the five bundles of grasping-fuel are painful.

"Now this, bhikkhus, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the pain-originating true reality. It is this craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and attachment, seeking delight now here now there; that is, craving for sense-pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination (of what is not liked).

"Now this, bhikkhus, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the pain-ceasing true reality. It is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, non-reliance on it.

"Now this, bhikkhus, for the spiritually ennobled ones, is the true reality which is the way leading to the cessation of pain. It is this Noble Eight-factored Path, that is to say, right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right mental unification.

'This — for the spiritually ennobled ones, the true reality of pain — has been fully understood'

'This — for the spiritually ennobled ones, the pain-originating true reality — has been abandoned.'

'This — for the spiritually ennobled ones, the pain-ceasing true reality — has been personally experienced.'

'This — for the spiritually ennobled ones, the true reality which is way leading to the cessation of pain — has been developed.'