[DianaDrk]

Hello Element,

it is not significant at all. buddha discovered a path that was unknown, which the wise have followed for 2,500 years now. lets face the facts. Buddha, whilst human, was super freak human. but we expect to find the path to dukkha nirodha without buddha? I respect your personal beliefs, but i dont agree that there is something called "super freak human". The Buddha was an ordinary human as the rest of us, the only difference is that he had the courage to try something new and to depend totally on himself. To depend on ourselves is freedom, but unfortunately we dont want to be free, we always want someone to tell us what to do, this is what we have been doing for our entire life!!! We dont know any other way and we are too lazy/too scared to try.

unrelated to anything; just rhetoric; just parrotting KM Actually its your statement that is irrelevant to the topic discussed and it proves what i & KM are both correct. You have seen a similarity between what i am saying and KM which triggered your memory and you responded accordingly, so you have not responded directly to what i am saying but through an idea in your head/your memory/your ego which made you defensive. Its a bit funny that you sounded like you caught me cheating

By the way, i agree with KM to a great extent except but his idea of "unmotivated awarness" spoiled everything. If he just said that no one can help you to find the truth but yourself then shut up then i would have agreed with him %100.

contradiction. buddha explained what freedom is, so the mind engages the mind in that freedom. but buddha explained it to us (and much more) I find it a bit strange that you take whatever is written in a more than 2000 years text to be the truth, the text which always starts with "Thus i have heard" and after you read all the repetitve text it usually concludes with "That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted in the Blessed One's words." (cant you see the power of suggestion, the monks delighted in what thw Buddha said so if you disagree with the sutta there must be something wrong with you )

How can effort lead to freedom?? who is doing the effort? and why? and then when we are confronted with these questions we start to use some strange similies (the raft simile) or use some contradictory statements like (do without being the doer!!!!!) all in order to escape from the main issue which is that effort can never lead us to freedom. Buddhists always criticize greed and everything they do stems out of greed. If there is no greed and reality is good as it is, then what are you practicing for???!!!

I admit that Buddhism can make us happier. When you practice meditation for long hours you learn how to deal with discomfort and it toughens you up which is important for happiness. It also takes us away and distract us from our emptiness by giving us a new centre, so we become the wise compassionate gurus which is quite statisfying for the ego. However, when it comes to the ultimate truth, i dont think any ideology (including Buddhism) can do us any good.

I cant help but to agree with some zen who say "if you see the Buddha on the road, kill him"