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**MineOffedOvex** · 04-30-2012, 08:09 PM

A particularly old debate is "Gradual vs. Sudden" enlightenment, which of course, really is theoretical in once sense because of the actual need for practice.

Pre-Nibbanic states are not new to "Buddhism" as the Buddhas' teachers were not Buddhists and from my research, the Buddha took up an Upanishadic stance in accepting them as teachers and in doing pranayama or as the Digha Nikaya states "experiencing violent winds when stopping the in/out breaths out of the mouth, mouth & nose, and mouth/nose/ears and mouth/nose/ears/closing the eyes"

Comments?

Sure.

Buddha rejected the pranayama that bore him no result. Buddha realised the violent pranayama he formerly practised was a fruitless path. Buddha explained in his 1st sermon:

Bhikkhus, these two extremes ought not to be cultivated by one gone forth from the house-life. What are the two? There is devotion to indulgence of pleasure in the objects of sensual desire, which is inferior, low, vulgar, ignoble and leads to no good; and there is devotion to self-torment, which is painful, ignoble and leads to no good.

Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta: Setting Rolling the Wheel of Truth Buddha did not teach of "sudden" full enlightenment. Full enlightenment is gradual. But the 1st stage of initial enlightenment, i.e., stream-entry, is certainly sudden. But sudden enlightenment is not full enlightenment. Buddha taught four stages of enlightenment.

Kind regards

04-30-2012, 08:09 PM	#13
MineOffedOvex Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 446 Senior Member	A particularly old debate is "Gradual vs. Sudden" enlightenment, which of course, really is theoretical in once sense because of the actual need for practice. Pre-Nibbanic states are not new to "Buddhism" as the Buddhas' teachers were not Buddhists and from my research, the Buddha took up an Upanishadic stance in accepting them as teachers and in doing pranayama or as the Digha Nikaya states "experiencing violent winds when stopping the in/out breaths out of the mouth, mouth & nose, and mouth/nose/ears and mouth/nose/ears/closing the eyes" Comments? Sure. Buddha rejected the pranayama that bore him no result. Buddha realised the violent pranayama he formerly practised was a fruitless path. Buddha explained in his 1st sermon: Bhikkhus, these two extremes ought not to be cultivated by one gone forth from the house-life. What are the two? There is devotion to indulgence of pleasure in the objects of sensual desire, which is inferior, low, vulgar, ignoble and leads to no good; and there is devotion to self-torment, which is painful, ignoble and leads to no good. Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta: Setting Rolling the Wheel of Truth Buddha did not teach of "sudden" full enlightenment. Full enlightenment is gradual. But the 1st stage of initial enlightenment, i.e., stream-entry, is certainly sudden. But sudden enlightenment is not full enlightenment. Buddha taught four stages of enlightenment. Kind regards
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