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the Anapanasati Sutta appears to explain each stage is done with awareness of breathing. thus there appears to be a depth to Anapanasati that is far deeper. Buddha instructed perfecting Anapanasati perfects the Four Foundations of Mindfulness. therefore, it appears quite obvious Anapanasati is not different from Satipatthana and Satipatthana is not different from Anapanasati

The Satipatthana Sutta explains all four foundations of mindfulness, the breath (not anapansati specifically) is only mentioned in connection with mindfulness of the body. Of course it’s an important gateway sure, a good friend along the way no doubt.

it appears quite obvious, practising the 4NTs is not different to practising Anapanasati and practising Anapanasati is not different to practising the 4NTs. it appears practising Anapanasati is practising the 4NTs. Buddha-Dhamma explains:

Friends, just as the footprints of all legged animals are encompassed by the footprint of the elephant, and the elephant's footprint is reckoned the foremost among them in terms of size; in the same way, all skillful qualities are gathered under the four noble truths. Under which four? Under the noble truth of stress, under the noble truth of the origination of stress, under the noble truth of the cessation of stress, and under the noble truth of the path of practice leading to the cessation of stress.

Maha-hatthipadopama Sutta

Now we’re getting silly, I’m not sure whether you are downgrading the 4NT to a meditation technique or upgrading a meditation technique to the problem and solution to life as we know it.

The curious thing about that quote is it says nothing about the breath in general or anapanasati specifically

the Anapanasati Sutta appears to explain each stage is done with awareness of breathing. there appears to be a depth to Anapanasati that is beyond, i.e., far deeper, than what many believe. Buddha instructed perfecting Anapanasati perfects the Four Foundations of Mindfulness. it appears obvious Anapanasati is not different from Satipatthana and Satipatthana is not different from Anapanasati

I don’t disagree. However the Buddha did not just teach one meditation technique he suggested a whole raft of meditation techniques, more importantly he taught a whole new approach and purpose to meditation specifically and life in general.

when aware of rapture (which must manifest due to awareness of breathing), the mind is also aware of breathing. when aware of the quality of mind, the mind is also aware of breathing. when aware of impermanence, the mind is also aware of breathing. when aware of sankhara (conditioning; cause & effect relationships), the mind is also aware of breathing. this is Anapanasati, as described in the sutta. it appears obvious Anapanasati is not focussing on one object at the exclusion of others

The mind can be aware of those things, and the breathing seemingly simultaneously or in quick succession, yes I agree anapanasati is not focussing on one object at the exclusion of others, though it can be practised that way. I also understand that anapanasati is not just about the nostrils and upper lip and that it would be a mistake to view it that way.

What I don’t agree with is the notion that anapanasati is the only way to develop awareness of the four foundations of mindfulness, which on the surface of it appears is what you are saying.

in short, it appears superficial view of Anapanasati will limit the scope of practise that is possible. for example, the 9th stage of Anapanasati is not ultimately related to thoughts. ultimely, the 9th stage of Anapanasati is practised with complete samadhi were the object of awareness is underlying ('energy' of) defilement itself (rather than thought/mental words)

Agreed, of course this only matters if the technique you are choosing to practise is in fact anapanasati. At the end of the day whatever technique one chooses it’s a means to an end not an end in itself, it’s the mind we are interested in training not the breathing.

i very thoroughly enjoy reading your posts on this forum. but i must disagree thoroughly with this view here. the path of samatha-vipassana can fully progress by developing Anapanasati, as buddha taught. as i suggested, we can limit ourselves here by overlooking a road not travelled

I agree you can fully progress with one technique provided you don’t get in a rut with it. In my experience this is very easy to do if one doesn’t develop skills in more than one technique and doesn’t learn to recognise the state of mind at the time and doesn’t learn to vary the approach depending on the state of mind at the time.

Too much emphasis on one technique and not enough on the state of mind the technique is intended to develop leads to a can’t see the woods for the trees type practice in my experience and from what I’ve observed of other meditators.

so what is the difference? for me, using effort is not letting go. by using effort, the mind can suppress. by suppressing, there can be limited spaciousness for the mental formations stored within the physical body to rise up, dissolve & purify

Agreed, practice should eventually become effortless however most/all people go through a period of putting forth effort before they learn to let go and allow effortlessness, this effort is not lost as it also helps develop self discipline.

how? Deshy and Element went on a ranting rampage because Anapanasati seemed to not be viewed in its fullness

Sure it’s not uncommon for people to not appreciate the progression laid out in the anapanasati sutta but that doesn’t warrant equating it with the purpose and foundational teaching of the Buddhadamma.