DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Is the seven further lifetimes of a stream-enterer a myth?

**MattJargin** · 08-12-2011, 10:20 PM

For me, the excerpt does not read well but a possibility that arises is "the breakthough" mentioned in the sutta can occur seven more times at most.

That is, there are seven more fetters for the stream winner to break.

Just an idea.

Mmm... the first three are overcome and are left seven...

The Pali Buddhist Dictionary by Ven. Nyanatiloka establishes a sequence for the overcoming of fetters and also tells that fetters are "lower" and "higher". Overcoming the first three is Sotapanna and then once the 4 o 5 lower fetters have been overcome it is called Sakadagami or the once returner to "sensuous world"; for the complete 5 lower fetters it is the Anagami or non-returner and the overcoming of the 10 fetters is the Arahat.

Sotapanna: Personality Believe, sceptical doubt, clinging to mere rules and ritual.

Once returner: Sotapanna + sensuous craving

Non returner: Once returner + ill will

Arahat: Non returner + craving for fine material existence, craving for immaterial existence, conceit, restlessness and ignorance.

Yes, seems reasonable that seven lifes are the rest of the fetters to be overcome even when through this last effort we have other stages as the Once Returner and the Non Returner.

From this: What means really "non returner"? Seems that the Non Returner has left lot of work to accomplish and reach the Arahat.

08-12-2011, 10:20 PM	#22
MattJargin Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 442 Senior Member	For me, the excerpt does not read well but a possibility that arises is "the breakthough" mentioned in the sutta can occur seven more times at most. That is, there are seven more fetters for the stream winner to break. Just an idea. Mmm... the first three are overcome and are left seven... The Pali Buddhist Dictionary by Ven. Nyanatiloka establishes a sequence for the overcoming of fetters and also tells that fetters are "lower" and "higher". Overcoming the first three is Sotapanna and then once the 4 o 5 lower fetters have been overcome it is called Sakadagami or the once returner to "sensuous world"; for the complete 5 lower fetters it is the Anagami or non-returner and the overcoming of the 10 fetters is the Arahat. Sotapanna: Personality Believe, sceptical doubt, clinging to mere rules and ritual. Once returner: Sotapanna + sensuous craving Non returner: Once returner + ill will Arahat: Non returner + craving for fine material existence, craving for immaterial existence, conceit, restlessness and ignorance. Yes, seems reasonable that seven lifes are the rest of the fetters to be overcome even when through this last effort we have other stages as the Once Returner and the Non Returner. From this: What means really "non returner"? Seems that the Non Returner has left lot of work to accomplish and reach the Arahat.
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