DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Eternalism & Nihilism: What exactly do the suttas say?

**Yarikoff** · 08-09-2011, 04:42 PM

Supramundane

Itivuttaka: The Group of Twos

This was said by the Lord...

Bhikkhus, held by two kinds of views, some devas and human beings hold back and some overreach; only those with vision see.

And how, bhikkhus, do some hold back? Devas and humans enjoy being, delight in being, are satisfied with being. When Dhamma is taught to them for the cessation of being, their minds do not enter into it or acquire confidence in it or settle upon it or become resolved upon it. Thus, bhikkhus, do some hold back.

How, bhikkhus, do some overreach? Now some are troubled, ashamed and disgusted by this very same being and they rejoice in (the idea of) non-being, asserting: 'In as much as this self, good sirs, when the body perishes at death, is annihilated (ucchijjati) and destroyed and does not exist after death — this is peaceful, this is excellent, this is reality!' Thus, bhikkhus, do some overreach.

How, bhikkhus, do those with vision see? Herein a bhikkhu sees what has come to be as having come to be. Having seen it thus, he practices the course for turning away (nibbidāya), for dispassion (virāgāya), for the cessation (nirodhāya) of what has come to be. Thus, bhikkhus, do those with vision see.

Ucchindati [ud + chid, see chindati] to break up, destroy, annihilate S v.432 (bhavataṇhaŋ), A iv.17 (fut. ucchecchāmi to be read with v. l. for T. ucchejjissāmi); Sn 2 (pret. udacchida), 208 (ger. ucchijja); J v.383; Dh 285. Pass. ucchijjati to be destroyed or annihilated, to cease to exist S iv.309; J v.242, 467; Miln 192; PvA 63, 130 (= na pavattati), 253 (= natthi). -- pp. ucchinna (q. v.).
Kaccayanagotta Sutta

By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence (atthitañceva) & non-existence (natthitañca). But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one.

By & large, Kaccayana, this world is in bondage to attachments, clingings (sustenances) & biases. But one such as this does not get involved with or cling to these attachments, clingings, fixations of awareness, biases or obsessions; nor is he resolved on 'my self.' He has no uncertainty or doubt that just stress, when arising, is arising; stress, when passing away, is passing away. In this, his knowledge is independent of others. It's to this extent, Kaccayana, that there is right view.

"'Everything exists': That is one extreme. 'Everything doesn't exist': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma via the middle: From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.

Atthi [Sk. asti, 1st sg. asmi; Gr. ei)mi/ -- e)sti/; Lat. sum -- est; Goth. im -- ist; Ags. eom -- is E. am -- is] to be, to exist.

Atthibhāva state of being, existence, being J i.222, 290; ii.415; DhA ii.5; iv.217 (atthibhāva vā natthibhāva vā whether there is or not).

Atthitā (f.) [f. abstr. fr. atthi cp. atthibhāva] state of being, existence, being, reality M i.486; S ii.17 (˚añ c˚ eva natthitañ ca to be and not to be); iii.135; J v.110 (kassaci atthitaŋ vā natthitaŋ vā jānāhi see if there is anybody or not); DhsA 394. -- Often in abl. atthitāya by reason of, on account of, this being so DhA iii.344 (idamatthitāya under this condition) PvA 94, 97, 143.

Natthika (adj. -- n.) [Sk. nāstika] one who professes the motto of "natthi," a sceptic, nihilist S i.96; usually in cpds.
-- diṭṭhi scepticism, nihilistic view, heresy Sn 243 (=micchāditthi Com.); VvA 342; PvA 244; -- vāda one who professes a nihilistic doctrine S iii.73; M i.403; A ii.31; PvA 215 (+micchādiṭṭhika).

Natthitā (f.) [Sk. nāstitā, fr. n' atthi] nihilism S ii.17; J v.110.

Natthibhāva [n' atthi -- bhāva] non -- existence DhA iii.324.

08-09-2011, 04:42 PM	#1
Yarikoff Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 415 Senior Member	Eternalism & Nihilism: What exactly do the suttas say? Supramundane Itivuttaka: The Group of Twos This was said by the Lord... Bhikkhus, held by two kinds of views, some devas and human beings hold back and some overreach; only those with vision see. And how, bhikkhus, do some hold back? Devas and humans enjoy being, delight in being, are satisfied with being. When Dhamma is taught to them for the cessation of being, their minds do not enter into it or acquire confidence in it or settle upon it or become resolved upon it. Thus, bhikkhus, do some hold back. How, bhikkhus, do some overreach? Now some are troubled, ashamed and disgusted by this very same being and they rejoice in (the idea of) non-being, asserting: 'In as much as this self, good sirs, when the body perishes at death, is annihilated (ucchijjati) and destroyed and does not exist after death — this is peaceful, this is excellent, this is reality!' Thus, bhikkhus, do some overreach. How, bhikkhus, do those with vision see? Herein a bhikkhu sees what has come to be as having come to be. Having seen it thus, he practices the course for turning away (nibbidāya), for dispassion (virāgāya), for the cessation (nirodhāya) of what has come to be. Thus, bhikkhus, do those with vision see. Ucchindati [ud + chid, see chindati] to break up, destroy, annihilate S v.432 (bhavataṇhaŋ), A iv.17 (fut. ucchecchāmi to be read with v. l. for T. ucchejjissāmi); Sn 2 (pret. udacchida), 208 (ger. ucchijja); J v.383; Dh 285. Pass. ucchijjati to be destroyed or annihilated, to cease to exist S iv.309; J v.242, 467; Miln 192; PvA 63, 130 (= na pavattati), 253 (= natthi). -- pp. ucchinna (q. v.). Kaccayanagotta Sutta By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence (atthitañceva) & non-existence (natthitañca). But when one sees the origination of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'non-existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. When one sees the cessation of the world as it actually is with right discernment, 'existence' with reference to the world does not occur to one. By & large, Kaccayana, this world is in bondage to attachments, clingings (sustenances) & biases. But one such as this does not get involved with or cling to these attachments, clingings, fixations of awareness, biases or obsessions; nor is he resolved on 'my self.' He has no uncertainty or doubt that just stress, when arising, is arising; stress, when passing away, is passing away. In this, his knowledge is independent of others. It's to this extent, Kaccayana, that there is right view. "'Everything exists': That is one extreme. 'Everything doesn't exist': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma via the middle: From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering. Atthi [Sk. asti, 1st sg. asmi; Gr. ei)mi/ -- e)sti/; Lat. sum -- est; Goth. im -- ist; Ags. eom -- is E. am -- is] to be, to exist. Atthibhāva state of being, existence, being J i.222, 290; ii.415; DhA ii.5; iv.217 (atthibhāva vā natthibhāva vā whether there is or not). Atthitā (f.) [f. abstr. fr. atthi cp. atthibhāva] state of being, existence, being, reality M i.486; S ii.17 (˚añ c˚ eva natthitañ ca to be and not to be); iii.135; J v.110 (kassaci atthitaŋ vā natthitaŋ vā jānāhi see if there is anybody or not); DhsA 394. -- Often in abl. atthitāya by reason of, on account of, this being so DhA iii.344 (idamatthitāya under this condition) PvA 94, 97, 143. Natthika (adj. -- n.) [Sk. nāstika] one who professes the motto of "natthi," a sceptic, nihilist S i.96; usually in cpds. -- diṭṭhi scepticism, nihilistic view, heresy Sn 243 (=micchāditthi Com.); VvA 342; PvA 244; -- vāda one who professes a nihilistic doctrine S iii.73; M i.403; A ii.31; PvA 215 (+micchādiṭṭhika). Natthitā (f.) [Sk. nāstitā, fr. n' atthi] nihilism S ii.17; J v.110. Natthibhāva [n' atthi -- bhāva] non -- existence DhA iii.324.
	Quote