[mincbiori]

In the actual OP where this topic originated on Dhammawheel...

thanks for the link

i found it amazing (but not surprising given anything is possible) that there could actually be agreement with these views (unless one has never read the suttas):

Here is a discussion of the vipassana jhanas by Ven U Pandita.

The desrciption he gives there is what I agree with.

in the suttas, jhana refers to stages of one-pointedness

Unflagging persistence was aroused in me and unmuddled mindfulness established. My body was calm & unaroused, my mind concentrated & single (samāhitaṃ cittaṃ ekaggaṃ). Quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by applied & sustained thought. With the stilling of applied & sustained thought, I entered & remained in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from applied & sustained thought — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture I remained in equanimity, mindful & alert, and physically sensitive of pleasure. I entered & remained in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — I entered & remained in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain.

MN 19 whereas the tracking of the breathing within the body U Pandita describes & the discernment of its rise & fall occurs prior to jhana

U Pandita's discussion of the five jhana factors can only be described as absurd

in real jhana, the jhana factors, most noteably pīti (rapture) and sukha (happiness), replace the in & breathing as the salient objects of meditation. pīti (rapture) and sukha (happiness) are observed in the mind and not in or part of the physical body

the Commentaries explain, correctly, the three levels of concentration, namely, momentary, neighbourhood and attainment (jhana) concentration

even on the level of neighbourhood concentration, pīti (rapture) and sukha (happiness) are not related to the physical body (such as goosebumps, etc)

the practise described by U Pandita is on the beginning levels of neighbourhood concentration, not yet reaching the 2nd Satipatthana on that level of concentration. it is very far from any kind of jhana

in short, the views of U Pandita and those that agree with the desrciption he gives are embarrassing to read

how will the faithful ever aspire to complete the whole path when teachers & internet global moderators water down the path?

with teachings like this, it is not surprising there are folks, like Dharma Dan, declaring: "I am an arahant"

regards