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Old 11-09-2011, 02:11 PM   #11
8IhGpvH0

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Nāma-rūpa is best understood in the context of its interplay as ‘recognition of form’ (rūpa as both embodiment and objects of sense).
thanks AB

i was personally interested in reading some opinions on the subject




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In Concept and Reality, Ñāṇananda mentions this:

This ‘pathways of concepts and designations converged on it,…’ is the same dynamic we find in AN. 10.2.1.8/8.2.4.3 (Kiṃmūlaka Suttas’) where such ‘concepts and designations’ are the sabbe dhammā ‘all things’ which ‘converge at sensations’ (vedanā samosaraṇa), the basis of which are in nāma-rūpa and diversity are in the 18 dhātus of saḷāyatana (AN.9.1.2.4. – Samiddhi Sutta), and are led by the contemplative through the pathway of samādhi and sati to the utmost of wisdom and release into the deathless of nibbāna.
as an aside, i struggle to follow Ñāṇananda here

for me, the word 'dhamma' here does not mean 'things' but 'practises', such as in the phrase:

O Bhikkhus. The footprints of all land-bound creatures fit within the footprint of the elephant; the elephant's footprint is said to be the supreme footprint in terms of size. Similarly all skilful dhammas have heedfulness as their base, converge within the bounds of heedfulness. Heedfulness may be said to be supreme amongst those dhammas.

S.V.43 thus, the saying "sabbe dhamma vedanā samosaraṇa" is "all skilful dhammas converge on feelings", as follows:

On knowing a phenomenon with the mind, he is not passionate for it if it is pleasing; he is not angry
at it if it is displeasing. He lives with attention to body established, with an immeasurable mind and
he understands realistically the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom wherein those evil
unwholesome states cease without remainder. Having abandoned favouring and opposing, whatever
feeling he feels - whether pleasant or painful or neither-pleasant-nor-painful - he does not delight in
that feeling, welcome it or remain holding to it. As he does not do so, delight in feelings ceases in
him.

MN 38 When a bhikkhu has heard that nothing is worth adhering to, he directly knows everything; having directly known everything, he fully understands everything; having directly known everything, he fully understood everything, whatever feeling he feels, whether pleasant or painful or neither pleasant or painful, he abides contemplating (observing) impermanence in those feelings, contemplating (observing) fading away, contemplating (observing) cessation, contemplating (observing) relinquishment (letting go). Contemplating (observing) thus, he does not cling to anything in the world. When he does not cling, he is not agitated, he personally attains Nibbana. He understands: ‘Birth is destroyed, the holy life has been lived, there is no more coming to any state of being.’ Briefly, it is in this way, ruler of gods, that a bhikkhu is liberated in the destruction of craving, one who has reached the ultimate end, the ultimate security from bondage, the ultimate holy life, the ultimate goal, one who is foremost among gods and humans

MN 37 similarly, AN.9.1.2.4 Samiddhi Sutta substitutes "sabbe dhamma" with "saṅkappavitakkā", which is not "all things" but as Bodhi translates as "purposive thoughts" (similar to "skilful dhammas")

if saṅkappavitakkā was not skilful here, then they could not culminate in Liberation, the Deathless & Nibbana, as the sutta describes

when the Samiddhi Sutta states [per Bodhi]: "From what does their variety derive? the elements", this could be as follows:

Bhikkhus, in dependence on an element there arises a perception, there arises a view, there arises a thought.

SN 14.13 Bhikkhus, sensual thoughts arise with a source, not without a source; thought of ill will arises with a source, not without a source; thought of harming arises with a source, not without a source. And how is this so?

In dependence on the sensuality element there arises sensual perception; in dependence on the sensual perception there arises sensual intention; in dependence on the sensual intention there arises sensual desire; in dependence on the sensual desire there arises sensual passion; in dependence on the sensual passion there arises a sensual quest. Engaged in a sensual quest, the uninstructed worldling conducts himself wrongly in three ways - with body, speech and mind.

In dependence on the ill will element there arises perception of ill will...

In dependence on the cruelty element there arises perception of harming...

In dependence on the renunciation element there arises perception of renunciation...

In dependence on the non-ill will element there arises perception of non-ill will...

In dependence on the harmlessness element there arises perception of harmlessness. In dependence on the perception of harmlessness there arises intention of harmlessness; in dependence on intention of harmlessness there arises desire for harmlessness; in dependence on desire for harmlessness there arises passion for harmlessness; in dependence on passion for harmlessness there arises a sensual quest. Engaged in a quest for harmlessness, the instructed noble disciple conducts himself rightly in three ways - with body, speech and mind.

SN 14.12 regards
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