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**Galinastva** · 11-09-2011, 03:30 PM

According to the Monier-Williams Dictionary (2006), rūpa is defined as:
... any outward appearance or phenomenon or colour (often pl.) , form , shape , figure RV. &c &c ...
to assume a form ; often ifc. = " having the form or appearance or colour of " , " formed or composed of " , " consisting of " , " like to " ....[1]

? sights, sounds, smells, taste, touch [dependent on 5 senses]

Nama - Feeling, perception, intention, contact & attention [dependent on the 6th sense]

Matter is a good description for rupa and mind for nama. Rupa is always object whereas nama can be both subject and object. Nama can know nama as well as rupa. Thus it is mind that can know matter (earth, wind, fire and water elements). Mind can also know mind (feelings, perception, mental formations and consciousness ie. eye, ear, nose, tongue, tactile and mind consciousness as objects).

This mind or consciousness as subject can only be known by its object nama-rupa. Both subject and object are dependently coarisen ie. seer-forms, hearer-sounds, thinker-thoughts. The reality is that there is only the process of seeing, hearing, thinking etc. "I am" seeing, hearing, thinking is an error. Similarly "things out there". Both "I" and "things" are empty of inherent existence.

"It's not the case, Kotthita my friend, that name-&-form is self-made, that it is other-made, that it is both self-made & other-made, or that — without self-making or other-making — it arises spontaneously. However, from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form."

"It's not the case, Kotthita my friend, that consciousness is self-made, that it is other-made, that it is both self-made & other-made, or that — without self-making or other-making — it arises spontaneously. However, from name-&-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness."

"Very well then, Kotthita my friend, I will give you an analogy; for there are cases where it is through the use of an analogy that intelligent people can understand the meaning of what is being said. It is as if two sheaves of reeds were to stand leaning against one another. In the same way, from name-&-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness, from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form.

"If one were to pull away one of those sheaves of reeds, the other would fall; if one were to pull away the other, the first one would fall. In the same way, from the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of consciousness, from the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....067.than.html

11-09-2011, 03:30 PM	#12
Galinastva Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 512 Senior Member	According to the Monier-Williams Dictionary (2006), rūpa is defined as: ... any outward appearance or phenomenon or colour (often pl.) , form , shape , figure RV. &c &c ... to assume a form ; often ifc. = " having the form or appearance or colour of " , " formed or composed of " , " consisting of " , " like to " ....[1] ? sights, sounds, smells, taste, touch [dependent on 5 senses] Nama - Feeling, perception, intention, contact & attention [dependent on the 6th sense] Matter is a good description for rupa and mind for nama. Rupa is always object whereas nama can be both subject and object. Nama can know nama as well as rupa. Thus it is mind that can know matter (earth, wind, fire and water elements). Mind can also know mind (feelings, perception, mental formations and consciousness ie. eye, ear, nose, tongue, tactile and mind consciousness as objects). This mind or consciousness as subject can only be known by its object nama-rupa. Both subject and object are dependently coarisen ie. seer-forms, hearer-sounds, thinker-thoughts. The reality is that there is only the process of seeing, hearing, thinking etc. "I am" seeing, hearing, thinking is an error. Similarly "things out there". Both "I" and "things" are empty of inherent existence. "It's not the case, Kotthita my friend, that name-&-form is self-made, that it is other-made, that it is both self-made & other-made, or that — without self-making or other-making — it arises spontaneously. However, from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form." "It's not the case, Kotthita my friend, that consciousness is self-made, that it is other-made, that it is both self-made & other-made, or that — without self-making or other-making — it arises spontaneously. However, from name-&-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness." "Very well then, Kotthita my friend, I will give you an analogy; for there are cases where it is through the use of an analogy that intelligent people can understand the meaning of what is being said. It is as if two sheaves of reeds were to stand leaning against one another. In the same way, from name-&-form as a requisite condition comes consciousness, from consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. "If one were to pull away one of those sheaves of reeds, the other would fall; if one were to pull away the other, the first one would fall. In the same way, from the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of consciousness, from the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form. http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....067.than.html
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