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**sjdflghd** · 06-16-2010, 08:50 AM

The Pali Commentaries identify the two triads, taking them as alternative expressions for the same thing; both are understood to refer to bodily volition, verbal volition, and mental volition (kaayasa~ncetanaa, vaciisa~ncetanaa, manosa~ncetanaa). Ven. ~Naa.naviira takes issue with this identification, holding that the two triads must be distinguished. He admits that the second triad is to be identified with cetanaa, but he insists that the terms used in the first triad have to be understood by way of the explanation given in the Cuu.lavedalla Sutta.

What are the sa"nkhaaraa that are conditioned by ignorance? Meritorious sa"nkhaara, demeritorious sa"nkhaara, imperturbable sa"nkhaara; body-sa"nkhaara, speech-sa"nkhaara, mind-sa"nkhaara....

As I said earlier, the above is found in one sutta, namely, the Bhumija Sutta. But this sutta is not about dependent origination per se. Plus the sutta contradicts the Dhamma and therefore can be held not to have been spoken by the Buddha.

The first two sections of the sutta are fine, which state feeling arises from contact. This accords with the Dhamma.

But the third section does not accord with the Dhamma because it contradicts the first two sections. The third section states feeling (at contact) is caused by volition.

If fact, the Buddha taught karma is volition (intention) and the first two sections state feeling is not caused by kamma & then supposedly the Buddha in the 3rd section tells Ananda feelings are caused by intention (kamma).

This cannot be the case because arahants experience feelings that are not related to volition. These feelings are merely related to the nervous system, as follows:

"What, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. However, his five sense faculties remain unimpaired, by which he still experiences what is agreeable and disagreeable and feels pleasure and pain. It is the extinction of attachment, hate, and delusion in him that is called the Nibbana-element with residue left.
***
Here, ruler of the gods, a bhikkhu has heard that nothing is worth clinging to. When a bhikkhu has heard nothing is worth clinging to, he directly knows everything; having directly known everything, he fully understands everything; having fully understood everything, whatever feeling he feels, whether pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant, he abides contemplating impermanence in those feelings, contemplating fading away, contemplating cessation, contemplating relinquishment. Contemplating thus, he does not cling to anything in the world. When he does not cling, he is not agitated. When he is not agitated, he personally attains Nibbana. He understands: 'What had to be done has been done'. Briefly, it is in this way, ruler of the gods, that a bhikkhu is liberated in the destruction of craving, one who has reached the ultimate end.

Culatanhasankhaya Sutta ***
"On seeing a form with the eye, he is not passionate for it if it is pleasing; he is not angry at it if it is displeasing. He lives with attention to body established, with an immeasurable mind and he understands realistically the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom wherein those evil unwholesome states cease without remainder. Having abandoned favouring and opposing, whatever feeling he feels - whether pleasant or painful or neither-pleasant-nor-painful - he does not delight in that feeling, welcome it, or remain holding to it. As he does not do so, delight in feelings ceases in him. From the cessation of his delight comes cessation of clinging; from the cessation of clinging, the cessation of becoming; from the cessation of becoming, the cessation of birth; from the cessation of birth, ageing-&-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair cease. Thus is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering.

Mahàtanhàsankhaya Sutta ***

28. But when the Blessed One had entered upon the rainy season, there arose in him a severe illness, and sharp and deadly pains came upon him. And the Blessed One endured them mindfully, clearly comprehending and unperturbed.

06-16-2010, 08:50 AM	#10
sjdflghd Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 498 Senior Member	The Pali Commentaries identify the two triads, taking them as alternative expressions for the same thing; both are understood to refer to bodily volition, verbal volition, and mental volition (kaayasa~ncetanaa, vaciisa~ncetanaa, manosa~ncetanaa). Ven. ~Naa.naviira takes issue with this identification, holding that the two triads must be distinguished. He admits that the second triad is to be identified with cetanaa, but he insists that the terms used in the first triad have to be understood by way of the explanation given in the Cuu.lavedalla Sutta. What are the sa"nkhaaraa that are conditioned by ignorance? Meritorious sa"nkhaara, demeritorious sa"nkhaara, imperturbable sa"nkhaara; body-sa"nkhaara, speech-sa"nkhaara, mind-sa"nkhaara.... As I said earlier, the above is found in one sutta, namely, the Bhumija Sutta. But this sutta is not about dependent origination per se. Plus the sutta contradicts the Dhamma and therefore can be held not to have been spoken by the Buddha. The first two sections of the sutta are fine, which state feeling arises from contact. This accords with the Dhamma. But the third section does not accord with the Dhamma because it contradicts the first two sections. The third section states feeling (at contact) is caused by volition. If fact, the Buddha taught karma is volition (intention) and the first two sections state feeling is not caused by kamma & then supposedly the Buddha in the 3rd section tells Ananda feelings are caused by intention (kamma). This cannot be the case because arahants experience feelings that are not related to volition. These feelings are merely related to the nervous system, as follows: "What, bhikkhus, is the Nibbana-element with residue left? Here a bhikkhu is an arahant, one whose taints are destroyed, the holy life fulfilled, who has done what had to be done, laid down the burden, attained the goal, destroyed the fetters of being, completely released through final knowledge. However, his five sense faculties remain unimpaired, by which he still experiences what is agreeable and disagreeable and feels pleasure and pain. It is the extinction of attachment, hate, and delusion in him that is called the Nibbana-element with residue left. * Here, ruler of the gods, a bhikkhu has heard that nothing is worth clinging to. When a bhikkhu has heard nothing is worth clinging to, he directly knows everything; having directly known everything, he fully understands everything; having fully understood everything, whatever feeling he feels, whether pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant, he abides contemplating impermanence in those feelings, contemplating fading away, contemplating cessation, contemplating relinquishment. Contemplating thus, he does not cling to anything in the world. When he does not cling, he is not agitated. When he is not agitated, he personally attains Nibbana. He understands: 'What had to be done has been done'. Briefly, it is in this way, ruler of the gods, that a bhikkhu is liberated in the destruction of craving, one who has reached the ultimate end. Culatanhasankhaya Sutta * "On seeing a form with the eye, he is not passionate for it if it is pleasing; he is not angry at it if it is displeasing. He lives with attention to body established, with an immeasurable mind and he understands realistically the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom wherein those evil unwholesome states cease without remainder. Having abandoned favouring and opposing, whatever feeling he feels - whether pleasant or painful or neither-pleasant-nor-painful - he does not delight in that feeling, welcome it, or remain holding to it. As he does not do so, delight in feelings ceases in him. From the cessation of his delight comes cessation of clinging; from the cessation of clinging, the cessation of becoming; from the cessation of becoming, the cessation of birth; from the cessation of birth, ageing-&-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair cease. Thus is the cessation of this entire mass of suffering. Mahàtanhàsankhaya Sutta *** 28. But when the Blessed One had entered upon the rainy season, there arose in him a severe illness, and sharp and deadly pains came upon him. And the Blessed One endured them mindfully, clearly comprehending and unperturbed.
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