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**MineOffedOvex** · 08-21-2011, 05:05 AM

The Mahācattārīsaka-sutta is a discourse of particular significance in the Pāli canon, as it is the only canonical instance in the four Nikāyas that presents a supramundane version of the path-factors.

From the outset, what is written seems to have miscontrued the meaning of supramundane (lokuttara). The Buddha defined 'supramundane' as follows:

...discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent (lokuttara), connected with emptiness...

Ani Sutta The Nikāyas, when detailing the Noble Eightfold Path, exclusively present a supramundane version of the path-factors, beginning with the Four Noble Truths, which are supramundane, because they prescribe the abandoning of attachment and 'self-view':

What is right understanding? It is this knowledge of suffering, knowledge of the arising of suffering, knowledge of the cessation of suffering, knowledge of the path leading to the cessation of suffering — this is called right understanding.

Saccavibhanga Sutta:An Analysis of the Truths The Blessed One said, "Now what, monks, is the Noble Eightfold Path? Right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.

"And what, monks, is right view? Knowledge with regard to stress, knowledge with regard to the origination of stress, knowledge with regard to the stopping of stress, knowledge with regard to the way of practice leading to the stopping of stress: This, monks, is called right view.

Magga-vibhanga Sutta: An Analysis of the Path For those who are not completely confident about how attachment & 'self-view' are related to suffering, the following sutta offers clarity:

"Now, how is one afflicted in body & afflicted in mind?

"There is the case where an uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person assumes form (the body) to be the self, or the self as possessing form, or form as in the self, or the self as in form. He is seized with the idea that 'I am form' or 'Form is mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his form changes & alters, and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over its change & alteration.

"He assumes feeling to be the self, or the self as possessing feeling, or feeling as in the self, or the self as in feeling. He is seized with the idea that 'I am feeling' or 'Feeling is mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his feeling changes & alters, and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over its change & alteration.

"He assumes perception to be the self, or the self as possessing perception, or perception as in the self, or the self as in perception. He is seized with the idea that 'I am perception' or 'Perception is mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his perception changes & alters, and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over its change & alteration.

"He assumes (mental) fabrications to be the self, or the self as possessing fabrications, or fabrications as in the self, or the self as in fabrications. He is seized with the idea that 'I am fabrications' or 'Fabrications are mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his fabrications change & alter, and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over their change & alteration.

"He assumes consciousness to be the self, or the self as possessing consciousness, or consciousness as in the self, or the self as in consciousness. He is seized with the idea that 'I am consciousness' or 'Consciousness is mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his consciousness changes & alters, and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over its change & alteration.

"This, householder, is how one is afflicted in body and afflicted in mind.

Nakulapita Sutta: To Nakulapita In my experience, despite not reading 100% of the Nikayas, I have never read the mundane right view factors used in an analysis of the Noble Eightfold Path.

I am confident the statement: "Mahācattārīsaka-sutta is the only canonical instance in the four Nikāyas that presents a supramundane version of the path-factors" is inaccurate.

08-21-2011, 05:05 AM	#2
MineOffedOvex Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 446 Senior Member	The Mahācattārīsaka-sutta is a discourse of particular significance in the Pāli canon, as it is the only canonical instance in the four Nikāyas that presents a supramundane version of the path-factors. From the outset, what is written seems to have miscontrued the meaning of supramundane (lokuttara). The Buddha defined 'supramundane' as follows: ...discourses that are words of the Tathagata — deep, deep in their meaning, transcendent (lokuttara), connected with emptiness... Ani Sutta The Nikāyas, when detailing the Noble Eightfold Path, exclusively present a supramundane version of the path-factors, beginning with the Four Noble Truths, which are supramundane, because they prescribe the abandoning of attachment and 'self-view': What is right understanding? It is this knowledge of suffering, knowledge of the arising of suffering, knowledge of the cessation of suffering, knowledge of the path leading to the cessation of suffering — this is called right understanding. Saccavibhanga Sutta:An Analysis of the Truths The Blessed One said, "Now what, monks, is the Noble Eightfold Path? Right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration. "And what, monks, is right view? Knowledge with regard to stress, knowledge with regard to the origination of stress, knowledge with regard to the stopping of stress, knowledge with regard to the way of practice leading to the stopping of stress: This, monks, is called right view. Magga-vibhanga Sutta: An Analysis of the Path For those who are not completely confident about how attachment & 'self-view' are related to suffering, the following sutta offers clarity: "Now, how is one afflicted in body & afflicted in mind? "There is the case where an uninstructed, run-of-the-mill person assumes form (the body) to be the self, or the self as possessing form, or form as in the self, or the self as in form. He is seized with the idea that 'I am form' or 'Form is mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his form changes & alters, and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over its change & alteration. "He assumes feeling to be the self, or the self as possessing feeling, or feeling as in the self, or the self as in feeling. He is seized with the idea that 'I am feeling' or 'Feeling is mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his feeling changes & alters, and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over its change & alteration. "He assumes perception to be the self, or the self as possessing perception, or perception as in the self, or the self as in perception. He is seized with the idea that 'I am perception' or 'Perception is mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his perception changes & alters, and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over its change & alteration. "He assumes (mental) fabrications to be the self, or the self as possessing fabrications, or fabrications as in the self, or the self as in fabrications. He is seized with the idea that 'I am fabrications' or 'Fabrications are mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his fabrications change & alter, and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over their change & alteration. "He assumes consciousness to be the self, or the self as possessing consciousness, or consciousness as in the self, or the self as in consciousness. He is seized with the idea that 'I am consciousness' or 'Consciousness is mine.' As he is seized with these ideas, his consciousness changes & alters, and he falls into sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress & despair over its change & alteration. "This, householder, is how one is afflicted in body and afflicted in mind. Nakulapita Sutta: To Nakulapita In my experience, despite not reading 100% of the Nikayas, I have never read the mundane right view factors used in an analysis of the Noble Eightfold Path. I am confident the statement: "Mahācattārīsaka-sutta is the only canonical instance in the four Nikāyas that presents a supramundane version of the path-factors" is inaccurate.
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