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**15Praxanant** · 07-11-2011, 09:43 PM

Hello Kris,

As you know we do not practice Jhana but Zazen and Zazen is the cornerstone of any Soto school. Certainly it was not taught by the historical Buddha but by Dogen Zengi who is considered a Buddha because of his assumed enlightenment. So I can't judge Jhana. However, looking at the Pali teachings, the few of them I had been into, I have the sensation, that even when Buddha recommends Jhana attainments there is a kind of not supporting on it as a main issue. For example, we have this sutta where I think, the Buddha is commenting about Jhanna absorptions (but maybe I am wrong):

He comments here about the final absorption:

11. "It may be that, by entirely transcending the sphere of nothingness, some monk enters and abides in the sphere of neither-perception-nor-non-perception; and he then might think: 'I am abiding in effacement.' But in the Noble One's discipline it is not these [attainments] that are called 'effacement'; in the Noble one's discipline they are called 'peaceful abidings.'

Sallekha Sutta (MN 8).
Where for each attainment, the Buddha is just recognizeing them only as "peaceful abidings".

As I have told, I do not do Jhanas. I can't tell about them but it is clear to me that Jhanas are understood as that: "peaceful abidings".

I do not want to make a defence of Zazen but I thing it is more about insight and tranquility as exposed in this sutta:

Ven. Ananda said: "Friends, whoever — monk or nun — declares the attainment of arahantship in my presence, they all do it by means of one or another of four paths. Which four?

"There is the case where a monk has developed insight preceded by tranquillity. As he develops insight preceded by tranquillity, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed.

Yuganaddha Sutta: In Tandem.
Where the Buddha recognizes as a path to arahantship through tranquility and insight. I don't know if Jhanna is about both of this attainments.

Hope this can bring some light into this thread.

07-11-2011, 09:43 PM	#3
15Praxanant Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 426 Senior Member	Hello Kris, As you know we do not practice Jhana but Zazen and Zazen is the cornerstone of any Soto school. Certainly it was not taught by the historical Buddha but by Dogen Zengi who is considered a Buddha because of his assumed enlightenment. So I can't judge Jhana. However, looking at the Pali teachings, the few of them I had been into, I have the sensation, that even when Buddha recommends Jhana attainments there is a kind of not supporting on it as a main issue. For example, we have this sutta where I think, the Buddha is commenting about Jhanna absorptions (but maybe I am wrong): He comments here about the final absorption: 11. "It may be that, by entirely transcending the sphere of nothingness, some monk enters and abides in the sphere of neither-perception-nor-non-perception; and he then might think: 'I am abiding in effacement.' But in the Noble One's discipline it is not these [attainments] that are called 'effacement'; in the Noble one's discipline they are called 'peaceful abidings.' Sallekha Sutta (MN 8). Where for each attainment, the Buddha is just recognizeing them only as "peaceful abidings". As I have told, I do not do Jhanas. I can't tell about them but it is clear to me that Jhanas are understood as that: "peaceful abidings". I do not want to make a defence of Zazen but I thing it is more about insight and tranquility as exposed in this sutta: Ven. Ananda said: "Friends, whoever — monk or nun — declares the attainment of arahantship in my presence, they all do it by means of one or another of four paths. Which four? "There is the case where a monk has developed insight preceded by tranquillity. As he develops insight preceded by tranquillity, the path is born. He follows that path, develops it, pursues it. As he follows the path, developing it & pursuing it — his fetters are abandoned, his obsessions destroyed. Yuganaddha Sutta: In Tandem. Where the Buddha recognizes as a path to arahantship through tranquility and insight. I don't know if Jhanna is about both of this attainments. Hope this can bring some light into this thread.
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