DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Karma From His Own Lips: by Ajahn Buddhadāsa

**NarunapyCalry** · 07-02-2011, 01:28 AM

hi

I am referring to the reality of psychological experience rather than Yogacara's theory.

The thinking mind (citta) generates anger and stores anger.

The conscious (meditation) mind allows anger to rise from storage & dissolve.

This is basic psychological reality.

In spirituality, the practise is to become conscious in order to 'release' mental defilements.

So, imo, all of the theories of rebirth/alaya consciousness are contrary to spiritual reality.

Thus the Buddha strongly admonished those (such as Bhikkhu Sati in MN 38 ) that asserted consciousness is reborn.

My view is it is impossible for consciousness to be reborn. It could be possible for a mental formation to be reborn, such as a frog living a certain pond deciding to jump into and makes its home in another pond.

My impression is even the Buddha had the self-respect to never ever declare consciousness is reborn. If he did, he would be censured by both the foolish and the wise.

Even religious folks have the good sense to believe "the soul", "personality", "life force", "atman", etc, is reborn.

But to believe consciousness or sense awareness (mere knowing) is reborn simply does not make sense, imo

Hi Element,

I don't think one needs to believe in (literal) rebirth or a "reborn consciousness" to find value in the alaya-vijnana paradigm. Certainly the Yogacarins took rebirth as a given, and alaya applies to it among other things. But in general its utility is that it provides an model for psychological continuity over time, without recourse to an atman. "Seeds" go in, ripen slowly or quickly as the case may be, and produce their vipaka. It can be understood in terms of the present life, and can be applied to the here and now through heedfulness with regard to one's actions.

For me, at least, it's a practical teaching. Cultivate the wholesome seeds, avoid cultivating the unwholesome ones. Hold the view that all seeds will come to fruition in some way or another, in present or future, "my" life or another's. That's pretty much it.

07-02-2011, 01:28 AM	#25
NarunapyCalry Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 383 Senior Member	hi I am referring to the reality of psychological experience rather than Yogacara's theory. The thinking mind (citta) generates anger and stores anger. The conscious (meditation) mind allows anger to rise from storage & dissolve. This is basic psychological reality. In spirituality, the practise is to become conscious in order to 'release' mental defilements. So, imo, all of the theories of rebirth/alaya consciousness are contrary to spiritual reality. Thus the Buddha strongly admonished those (such as Bhikkhu Sati in MN 38 ) that asserted consciousness is reborn. My view is it is impossible for consciousness to be reborn. It could be possible for a mental formation to be reborn, such as a frog living a certain pond deciding to jump into and makes its home in another pond. My impression is even the Buddha had the self-respect to never ever declare consciousness is reborn. If he did, he would be censured by both the foolish and the wise. Even religious folks have the good sense to believe "the soul", "personality", "life force", "atman", etc, is reborn. But to believe consciousness or sense awareness (mere knowing) is reborn simply does not make sense, imo Hi Element, I don't think one needs to believe in (literal) rebirth or a "reborn consciousness" to find value in the alaya-vijnana paradigm. Certainly the Yogacarins took rebirth as a given, and alaya applies to it among other things. But in general its utility is that it provides an model for psychological continuity over time, without recourse to an atman. "Seeds" go in, ripen slowly or quickly as the case may be, and produce their vipaka. It can be understood in terms of the present life, and can be applied to the here and now through heedfulness with regard to one's actions. For me, at least, it's a practical teaching. Cultivate the wholesome seeds, avoid cultivating the unwholesome ones. Hold the view that all seeds will come to fruition in some way or another, in present or future, "my" life or another's. That's pretty much it.
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