DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post - Karma From His Own Lips: by Ajahn Buddhadāsa

**StivRichardOff** · 07-02-2011, 03:13 AM

Hi Element,

I don't think one needs to believe in (literal) rebirth or a "reborn consciousness" to find value in the alaya-vijnana paradigm.

It's a made-up contrivance. There is value in the ethics it was devised to support, but there are far more effective paradigms that do not indulge -- and hinge -- on a house-of-cards of superstition.

Certainly the Yogacarins took rebirth as a given, and alaya applies to it among other things. And so do you. Which is why you simply cannot see why it is so meaningless to folks who are past such things. You would have to start thinking outside of the superstition box to see.

But in general its utility is that it provides an model for psychological continuity over time, without recourse to an atman. There are lots of other far less convoluted models that do not impose superstition or require suspension of logic or rationality. Simple adages such as "what comes around goes around", "people treat you how you treat them", and " you get's what you give's" suffice.

"Seeds" go in, ripen slowly or quickly as the case may be, and produce their vipaka. It can be understood in terms of the present life, and can be applied to the here and now through heedfulness with regard to one's actions.

For me, at least, it's a practical teaching. Cultivate the wholesome seeds, avoid cultivating the unwholesome ones. The Buddha's exposition of Right Effort suffices nicely with out any recourse to superstitious speculations.

Hold the view that all seeds will come to fruition in some way or another, in present or future, "my" life or another's. That's pretty much it. So we should just tell ourselves what we know to be made-up elegant lies, for what?

07-02-2011, 03:13 AM	#27
StivRichardOff Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 433 Senior Member	Hi Element, I don't think one needs to believe in (literal) rebirth or a "reborn consciousness" to find value in the alaya-vijnana paradigm. It's a made-up contrivance. There is value in the ethics it was devised to support, but there are far more effective paradigms that do not indulge -- and hinge -- on a house-of-cards of superstition. Certainly the Yogacarins took rebirth as a given, and alaya applies to it among other things. And so do you. Which is why you simply cannot see why it is so meaningless to folks who are past such things. You would have to start thinking outside of the superstition box to see. But in general its utility is that it provides an model for psychological continuity over time, without recourse to an atman. There are lots of other far less convoluted models that do not impose superstition or require suspension of logic or rationality. Simple adages such as "what comes around goes around", "people treat you how you treat them", and " you get's what you give's" suffice. "Seeds" go in, ripen slowly or quickly as the case may be, and produce their vipaka. It can be understood in terms of the present life, and can be applied to the here and now through heedfulness with regard to one's actions. For me, at least, it's a practical teaching. Cultivate the wholesome seeds, avoid cultivating the unwholesome ones. The Buddha's exposition of Right Effort suffices nicely with out any recourse to superstitious speculations. Hold the view that all seeds will come to fruition in some way or another, in present or future, "my" life or another's. That's pretty much it. So we should just tell ourselves what we know to be made-up elegant lies, for what?
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