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**zCLadw3R** · 05-06-2011, 10:39 PM

Please share with me--if not now some other time--why your take on seclusion, calm and purification is different; perhaps start with a description of the conditions you mentioned. Are these conditions to induce jhana, stream entry, or both?
Respectfully & Peacefully
BG

Hi BG,
Briefly, over many years of reading stuff about the jhanas a fair amount of material indicates that a high level of seclusion (say withdrawal from daily activity - perhaps ordination) is necessary, along with heaps of pure conduct and virtue.

Whilst this may be a great aid, I don't believe it is necessary to this extent. In Buddha's day people lived in close proximity to each other in a very communal way. In order to gain jhana, seclusion is necessary but we no longer have to clear off into a forest to get it.

A quiet room is fine. I would say that following the instructions we have in the anapanasati sutta in the correct manner, i.e. observing the breath and sensory and mental movement in a detached (non-obsessive) way will yield results.

I don't consider stream entry to be a pre-requisite for jhana, though I imagine jhana to be a pre-requisite for stream entry. The reason being that with jhana comes deeper insight. The kind of insight needed to actually start to loosen the bonds.

namaste
Kris

05-06-2011, 10:39 PM	#12
zCLadw3R Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 553 Senior Member	Please share with me--if not now some other time--why your take on seclusion, calm and purification is different; perhaps start with a description of the conditions you mentioned. Are these conditions to induce jhana, stream entry, or both? Respectfully & Peacefully BG Hi BG, Briefly, over many years of reading stuff about the jhanas a fair amount of material indicates that a high level of seclusion (say withdrawal from daily activity - perhaps ordination) is necessary, along with heaps of pure conduct and virtue. Whilst this may be a great aid, I don't believe it is necessary to this extent. In Buddha's day people lived in close proximity to each other in a very communal way. In order to gain jhana, seclusion is necessary but we no longer have to clear off into a forest to get it. A quiet room is fine. I would say that following the instructions we have in the anapanasati sutta in the correct manner, i.e. observing the breath and sensory and mental movement in a detached (non-obsessive) way will yield results. I don't consider stream entry to be a pre-requisite for jhana, though I imagine jhana to be a pre-requisite for stream entry. The reason being that with jhana comes deeper insight. The kind of insight needed to actually start to loosen the bonds. namaste Kris
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