DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate - View Single Post

**GZFL2tDA** · 04-19-2011, 07:20 AM

relying on books by teachers is not the same thing as actually learning directly from a great teacher

Absolutely!

one who has devoted his or her whole life to study and practice, and has learned from great teachers, and who transmits the teachings clearly without distorting them.

I think there are some issues here... how can one know if a teacher teaches clearly without distorting the teaching if we relay in the teacher more than in the teaching, let's say, a Pali teaching?

Some guidelines to this aspect of the practice are in the speech of Bhante Punajji given by Aloka in the opening post. Again the speech underlines some issues that are shared with the way learning is understood, at least in Soto Zen tradition.

I have seen a difference between Zen and, for example, Tibetan. Tibetan tradition, because of its culture, gives a huge importance to the guru and in some way it demands a kind of devotion and loyalty to its figure. Zen understands different the relationship of a teacher and the one who is being taught. It is less devotional and there is a constant awareness about not being in dependence to the teacher. In this sense, Zen way of teaching is similar to the elements given in Bhante speech.

There are countless Zen stories about this important aspect of the tradition:

One Note of Zen,

After Kakua visited the emperor he disappeared and no one knew what became of him. He was the first Japanese to study Zen in China, but since he showed nothing of it, save one note, he is not remembered for having brought Zen into his country.

Kakua visited China and accepted the true teaching. He did not travel while he was there. Meditating constantly, he lived on a remote part of a mountain. Whenever people found him and asked him to preach he would say a few words and then move to another part of the mountain where he could be found less easily.

The emperor heard about Kakua when he returned to Japan and asked him to preach Zen for his edification and that for his subjects.

Kakua stood before the emperor in silence. He then produced a flute from the folds of his robe, and blew one short note. Bowing politely, he disappeared.

Paul Reps,
Zen Flesh, Zen Bones. This do not mean there should not be neither teachers nor teachings. They are needed. Some people would be really lucky having a great teacher others maybe will not... but at the end, as Bhante Punnaji says, we are the only one responsible of discovering the teaching of the Buddha. I really don't know if the teacher we have at the dojo is the very best teacher of all the Soto Zen Roshis, but what is important is that there is him and I try to learn as much as I can from his meditation skills.

Also I think that traditions are about temper. Some people are about relying highly in a teacher why others don't. I think there is not a final word about this.

04-19-2011, 07:20 AM	#10
GZFL2tDA Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 351 Senior Member	relying on books by teachers is not the same thing as actually learning directly from a great teacher Absolutely! one who has devoted his or her whole life to study and practice, and has learned from great teachers, and who transmits the teachings clearly without distorting them. I think there are some issues here... how can one know if a teacher teaches clearly without distorting the teaching if we relay in the teacher more than in the teaching, let's say, a Pali teaching? Some guidelines to this aspect of the practice are in the speech of Bhante Punajji given by Aloka in the opening post. Again the speech underlines some issues that are shared with the way learning is understood, at least in Soto Zen tradition. I have seen a difference between Zen and, for example, Tibetan. Tibetan tradition, because of its culture, gives a huge importance to the guru and in some way it demands a kind of devotion and loyalty to its figure. Zen understands different the relationship of a teacher and the one who is being taught. It is less devotional and there is a constant awareness about not being in dependence to the teacher. In this sense, Zen way of teaching is similar to the elements given in Bhante speech. There are countless Zen stories about this important aspect of the tradition: One Note of Zen, After Kakua visited the emperor he disappeared and no one knew what became of him. He was the first Japanese to study Zen in China, but since he showed nothing of it, save one note, he is not remembered for having brought Zen into his country. Kakua visited China and accepted the true teaching. He did not travel while he was there. Meditating constantly, he lived on a remote part of a mountain. Whenever people found him and asked him to preach he would say a few words and then move to another part of the mountain where he could be found less easily. The emperor heard about Kakua when he returned to Japan and asked him to preach Zen for his edification and that for his subjects. Kakua stood before the emperor in silence. He then produced a flute from the folds of his robe, and blew one short note. Bowing politely, he disappeared. Paul Reps, Zen Flesh, Zen Bones. This do not mean there should not be neither teachers nor teachings. They are needed. Some people would be really lucky having a great teacher others maybe will not... but at the end, as Bhante Punnaji says, we are the only one responsible of discovering the teaching of the Buddha. I really don't know if the teacher we have at the dojo is the very best teacher of all the Soto Zen Roshis, but what is important is that there is him and I try to learn as much as I can from his meditation skills. Also I think that traditions are about temper. Some people are about relying highly in a teacher why others don't. I think there is not a final word about this.
	Quote